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Comments:
<0> :)
<1> they must be slacking off :)
<2> results + ads
<3> nah. makes sense... and its a perfectly acceptable load time
<3> but just thought id mention it
<3> :P
<2> Results 1 - 10 of about 1,430 for hajuu. (0.50 seconds)
<3> ouch
<2> heh. live.com crashes firefox
<3> yeah my ie doesnt like it either
<3> all the live betas are the dodgiest bull**** ever
<3> nowhere near beta
<2> it feels quite bloated
<2> wtf did they need to make their own scrollbars
<3> heh
<3> probably cause they did something that made it display wierd
<3> and instead of fixing it
<3> made their own scroll bars
<0> yea, the stuff they are doing is stuff we've had here at work for quite some time with AJAX, and it's IE 5.5, FF compatible.
<0> We found a way to make 24-bit PNG transparency support in IE 5.5
<0> ...
<0> fckr
<0> s
<3> Id reply.. but I hate ajax.
<0> Why? AJAX rules!
<3> Nothing that relies on someone elses software that they dont know supporting it to function, rules.
<0> what are you talking about?
<3> Well for example
<3> I can't use AJAX
<3> since I have all javascript disabled.
<0> Why do you have JS disabled?
<3> Because I have no want for it.
<0> Then you suffer the consequences of not being able to use it.
<3> ...
<3> No.
<0> Yes
<3> YOU suffer the consiquences of me not being able to use it.
<4> JS is a potential security risk...
<0> DarkFlib: So is loading an image in IE
<4> and many people disable it for that reason
<3> Your trying to get ME to use it.. Im not trying to get you to write software for me to use.
<0> DarkFlib: Many isn't a very big number. Not a lot of end-users disable JS, in fact, a very small percentage do.
<4> 2%
<3> er
<3> DarkFlib
<0> haha
<3> im with you
<3> JS is fine with me... For anything that isnt ESSENTIAL.
<4> but you also have to remember that there are many broken JS implementations
<0> Yes, for input and items that can be done server-side, but for dynamic content and pages, such as our entire platform, that's not a possibility. :)
<3> Dynamic content? What you mean like PHP does?
<3> ;)
<0> hahaha
<0> no
<0> Not needing to refresh a page to retrieve content.
<3> but your still loading..
<3> So whats the difference?
<4> DHTML is not a requirement for many applications... its just niave web coders think it is
<0> Of course, we have to send a request, but we're not reloading an entire page.
<3> they already have the images and **** cached
<3> :P
<3> Anyway
<0> Not for what we do.
<3> back to my c++'ing
<0> We bring AJAX to it's knees with how we implement it. ;)
<0> It serves us well, and it works for all users in our system.
<4> If web designers could master one technique before moving on to the next, it would make a change
<4> most can't even design static html properly
<0> in fact, we have 102k users in our system.
<4> let alone php generated html/xml/wml etc
<0> DarkFlib: True, frontpage hell. :)
<3> hehe I have like 8 years html experience
<0> Hajuu: Just 8? ;)
<4> and javascript it not a solution, its only a potential optimisation...
<0> I'm not using HTML much, all I use is CSS and DIV's. :)
<3> ...
<3> Well html isnt very complicated.
<3> So of course your not using much.
<4> if a DIV isn't HTML, I wonder what it is
<3> he said much
<3> not at all
<3> heh
<4> ahh
<0> I said "much"
<4> 5 threads at once atm
<0> awesome
<0> DCC SEND "09547203959374"
<4> but as with any optimisation technicque you need to provide fallback to non JS browsers
<4> SubFreeze, that nuke is getting old
<0> We're not as big as google, so we don't have the time in our development process to make non-ajax items. :)
<0> I wish we did.
<0> Windows Live is not friendly with my IE
<3> I agree.
<3> Night SmugAsleep
<5> heh
<5> night hajuu
<6> cya SmugAsleep
<3> argh! I forgot I have to work tommorow.
<3> better do some washing then.
<0> Ocoth: The items we introduce to our clients are a lot easier to the clients if we use AJAX to dynamically build forms / inputs, etc.. to expand and collapse items, record items, that not using ajax will make these items many, many pages long.
<6> but for the backend these "many, many pages" actually don't really have much of an effect on the code
<4> but they would download faster if they were non-ajax
<0> and to split them into different pages will require more time and effort when the client does not have a lot of time to put into our application when recording data.
<6> I'm not saying don't use AJAX
<0> Hmmmm.
<6> I'm saying it isn't hard to make it both accessible and AJAX-enhanced for those that support it
<0> Here's what I'll do -- I'll setup an account for you to use as a patient in our system, and you can comment. :)
<4> AJAX is useful in a small subset of applications... most apps are just trying to link buzzwords
<6> I use it when it actually does speed things up for users that support it
<3> Id use it when it wasnt critical to my pages operation.
<6> however it is added on after the component is already working
<6> so yeah, it isn't crticial to the pages operation, just an enhancement
<4> I only use JS where I can generate a page that is static and simply load a JS event hooking script to add any required functions... so it works with or without JS
<6> yeah, that's what I do DarkFlib :)
<4> I like fall back and standards compliance
<7> and js is good for what ?
<3> js is good for little features
<3> things that arent NECCESARY
<3> but are nice to have
<4> JS is good for optimising the user experience... but its only should be an optimisation technique... not a technique on its own *unless* you have a fixed userbase that you can be 100% sure that they will never fall outside of your limited code
<0> DarkFlib: Out userbase as 102k users, I don't think we have that. ;)
<4> ie.. a M$ network with enforced IE use
<4> SubFreeze, then there should be a fall back
<3> hmm.. its wierd that with c++ you have to define what kind of output it will have...
<3> like when you define the function
<3> SubFreeze: Yeah a fallback wouldnt even be that hard.
<3> Just write a php subset and a noscript section
<3> run it all through the php
<3> and youve got a fullproof app
<0> Hajuu: lol, not for this code we use. It's a nice mess.
<0> lol
<3> A nice mess..
<3> OF cours it is.
<3> its JS.
<3> :P
<4> lol
<0> ha ha, no
<3> crap im typing like a drunkard.
<3> :P
<3> ANYWAY
<3> c++.
<3> I was thinking about writing a c++ app that allowed you to serve pages php style using c++
<3> lol
<3> but instead im opting for an open GL something
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