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Comments:
<0> It would turn into a public relations catastrophe because the spin would be applied delicately at every turn to cast any religious leader in a questionable light.
<0> I'm sure you know how it works.
<1> Silver: True on that count.
<0> the best the religious leaders can do is sit back, stay out of the way, and pray that some non-religious groups begin to form and vocalize the same opinions without getting involved with the religious groups at all.
<2> SilverspurG: Form one?
<0> But even then it's a lost cause because, eventually, the media will dig up the 6-10 of them that go to Church and paint them as using the non-religious org as a front.
<0> Pizbit: You're ***uming that I care to do more than shill it on IRC. :)
<1> Silver: Is it true that American media is right-winged?
<0> kkaisare: No. It is true that the American media panders to the people who put dollars in the bank account. That includes both the right and the left.
<2> SilverspurG: That's probably the reason why the Christians get the cop, they have their religious fever to help motivate them that non-religious folk don't have.
<0> Pizbit: That could be part of it. It's only the Christians who have the gonads to vocalize what everyone else is thinking.
<1> Silver: Right about the media bit; but then that holds true world wide.....
<2> Not gonads, just motivation.
<3> s/motivation/money
<0> Pizbit: Arguably the same thing... since lack of motivation can easily be spun as cowardice.
<2> XyZzY: One and the same :D
<2> SilverspurG: Or apathy
<0> Pizbit: Which one is attributed to opposing the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan? Cowardice or apathy?
<1> Silver: Money? Oil?
<3> lack of Sheep
<1> Silver: Strategic advantage?
<0> kkaisare: I'm saying... if an American stands up to oppose the wars, are they given the badge of "we don't care enough to go invade other lands" or are they labelled "unpatriotic cowards who won't back their nation"?
<1> Silver: Admittedly, I suppose it is #2
<3> it's a common enough label to trick the US into being the world police force
<0> thank you. :)
<0> XyZzY: I don't think it needs much tricking. The Feds have been digging for a reason to do something big for 6 years to draw attention away from the stock market gift that they gave to themselves and their business ***ociates.
<3> true, people can always forget they have nothing when there is gore towatch on TV
<1> Silver: About the war, it finally boils down to profit. America has much to gain from sitting happy in Iraq. That's why African countries stand alone and Mugabe lives free....
<0> kkaisare: I've heard, in this channel, that we get more oil from Venezuela... so what exactly is the profit motive in the middle east? I have a few ideas but I'd be interested to hear yours.
<3> And why we hve not just taken over Mexico a a slave labor force. it's cheaper to 'wage a war on illegal immigrants' than to pay they comparable wages
<3> s/they/them
<0> XyZzY: That's what NAFTA did.
<0> anyone who can afford to move production to Mexico, or even further south, can... and the trade/border/shipping barriers to get the product back here have been drastically reduced to make it profitable.
<1> Silver: More oil doesn't mean enough, yes? There is this guy called Michael Ruppert. I saw a presentation of his, where he discusses a book by some Michael Berzhinsky on some thing about the oil peak, and why control of world oil supply is so important....
<1> M.B. also highlights Iraq and Afghanistan, among the smaller Soviet states....
<0> kkaisare: honestly, and I know I'll probably get jumped on for this... I think oil is a convenient "Hey! Look over there!" tactic. There's big money for the US to hold Iraq and Afghanistan... but it's not solely about oil.
<1> *and*
<3> Imean we're SO concerned about other people taking over other countries, what's to stop us from a little Global Domination? Shall we play a game?
<2> XyZzY: y
<1> Silver: Iraq was rich and beautiful once.....Now there is nothing there but oil. Where does more money come from?
<3> Pixie: 1) tic-tac-toe, 2) global thermal nuclear sheep
<0> kkaisare: I'm more interested in where it all went.
<2> XyZzY: Sheep?:)
<3> Pizbit: wouldn't you like a nice game of Chess? ;P
<2> Nah
<0> I don't believe that the answer is "to middle east warlords"... maybe some... but, in my loose understanding of the global business and economic circles... most of the money ****ed out of Middle Eastern oil ended up in the hands of World Bankers, and maybe even back in Israel, ironically enough.
<2> I'd rather jump ahead of Pixie in the nick completion order.
<1> Silver: Iraq was primarily a agricultural nation, with a few high tech industries. After the Gulf War, all that was left was rubble....Their ***ets were destroyed, or at least a lot of them. At least that is how I see it....
<1> Silver: If you want a nation's ***ets, you ought to take them intact.
<1> The only ***et Iraq has left is oil, isn't it?
<0> Bechtel stands to make millions, maybe billions, managing its contract to rebuild Iraq. Until we map the social connections of the people helping themselves to a fair share of that cash we'll never really truly know whose benefitting (and probably creating) this situation.
<0> kkaisare: What Iraq has is a potentially exploitable population. Get McDs there, get Wal-Mart there, get them lots of junk to buy... then get them hooked on credit.
<0> That's why Afghanistan is such a nice springboard--Pakistan and India are full of billions of underdeveloped people who are potentially credit slaves.
<1> Silver: Credit which can be then turned into labor for a war-machine?
<0> kkaisare: I don't think it's about war. It's just about making credit slaves... which a majority of the US already is, which is why our economy is drying up.
<0> The US is mortgages to the hilt... it's time for the bankers to find some new ****ers to reel in on the pyramid scheme.
<1> Silver: I don't know about India. We here are more interested in grabbing a pie off America's success...
<3> like we would allow any rea competition
<3> s/rea/real
<1> Silver: Pyramid? ROFL! Remeber our discussion over the Illuminati?
<0> kkaisare: You're being duped by the high level American interests. They're bringing you in on the tech and biotech sectors but, in the end, it will be the bankers who move in to help all of those newly employed professionals mortgage their lives away.
<0> kkaisare: there is no illuminati. There are just bankers working the books over.
<1> Silver: Mortgage? We generally don't do that. You must be speaking figuratively....
<0> kkaisare: You don't do that now... just wait a few years. Give the banks, insurance companies, and investment brokers time to figure out how much your people are willing to spend for this and that, and how much they're willing to invest on this or that...
<0> It took 80 years to get a firm hold around the US culture... from the mid 1910s to around the 1990s when we really had no possible escape route left.
<0> but, in the end, they'll end up bleeding your society just as dry as they have ours.
<0> the best part is that no one will notice because enough people will have new homes, and new jobs, and new cars, and new iPods, and new gadgets.
<2> Sounds like fun, where do I sign up?
<1> Silver: That is a frightening picture, all right.
<0> they'll be properly distracted and won't notice how hard they're working for someone else's profit.
<0> Pizbit: If you're in the US you're signed up by default at birth.
<2> Nope
<1> Silver: Suddenly the Amish life looks good.....
<0> from what I understand by talking with people around the world... the best thing you can do is move to a nation which has as little to do with the US as possible.
<0> Only there will your labor truly be your profit. Everywhere else and the banker's interests are tantamount to any individual rights.
<0> now standard of living may not be as high... but at least personal labor == personal profit.
<1> Silver: Translation: Ally with an obvious enemy of the US. Who can that be? Even China is now hand in hand with the Us...
<1> US
<0> and, at the end of the day, that's something which all biological organisms understand.
<0> kkaisare: Now you understand why Iraq and Afghanistan were strategic targets... not militarily or even politically--but economically.
<1> Silver: You think this process can carry indefinitely?
<0> kkaisare: It can't... which is why the US is economically in the position we're in--grasping at every economic bubble to hide the numbers.
<0> And that's why the next logical step is indeed to invade other nations.
<0> I don't know what the average US household debt is, but it's approaching a critical number where salaries can't keep up.
<1> Hmm. Apparently even smart people are duped by this. You've read ESR's opinions on the Iraq War?
<0> So, if you recognize the theory behind an economic pyramid scheme, the only possible way to continue is to rope more people in at the bottom.
<0> kkaisare: no. I haven't read ESR on this point yet.
<1> Silver: Take a look at his blog, Armed and Dangerous. He holds the belief that Islam is evil in itself. Even as a Hindu in India, I can't see that.
<1> Bascially, ESR is for the war.
<0> I've read ESR on some other things and generally I see his point... and he may be right about a subplot for the war movement.
<0> But the major driving force here has more to do with bank numbers and less to do with political opposition.
<2> kkaisare: ESR = ?
<0> political opposition is a nice coverup. It'd be pretty difficult to support the war by claiming the truth,"Our economy is tanking and we can't milk you for our profit anymore so we must invade other countries."
<0> !smart_questions
<2> SilverspurG: Here ESR means 'Delivering solutions in environmental health
<2> and forensic science'
<0> I hate to be pop-culture-esque... but the Matrix view of humans as a Duracell battery isn't so far from the truth.
<2> Doh, didn't see the line break
<1> Silver. Generally ESR is rught in a lot of things. But I doubt he undestands the people behind the religion. Most Muslims aren't really interested in war - like us, they are more keen on living their lives. Those that are terrorists are normally impoverished people who turn to an obscure phrase in the Quran to justify their crimes. In the case of Laden, though - he is an American creation from the start, so he does not apply.
<0> kkaisare: I agree and I think it's both appalling and amazing that the majority of the US can be so ignorant as to believe that a few selected and highly publicized snippets from the Koran means that the entire culture is made of blood-thirsty hate-mongers.
<1> Silver: I prefer to see it as tactical misdirection by the powers-that be. :)
<0> the Christian Bible isn't exactly a tale of peace and harmony either... in selected parts.
<1> Silver: No religion based on history can be purely peaceful
<0> kkaisare: We had a saying when I was growing up, since my parents both came from farm families,"Distract the farmer so someone else can steal the chickens."
<1> hehehe
<0> And that's exactly what's been happening for 15-20 years... except no one wants to admit that their all-knowing benevolent (snicker) government has sold them out.
<4> i have a server ! and i want when i connect to it with putty ... after i press de user and p*** to show me welcome to darknet
<4> :D
<4> how can i do?
<0> people will actually argue to the point of insults and violence to deny that they've been duped.
<4> someone knows ?
<1> Silver: Typical human reaction. How many people like to be shown that they are stupid?
<0> CasperuTZz: We all know, but we're having a pointless political discussion at the moment and can't be bothered.
<1> Casper: We all - (me)
<4> ok :D i waiting
<4> :D
<0> kkaisare: Most people love to be held back before they do something immediately stupid... but, you're right, those same people will close their eyes, plug their ears, and sing Happy Birthday at the top of their lungs before they'll admit that they were ****ered by a larger scheme.
<2> CasperuTZz: Current wait time is 10 years.
<4> :)))))))))
<4> why ?
<2> Because we're lazy.
<4> :P
<0> CasperuTZz: If you're lucky the people in #linuxhelp may be more inclined to ***ist you.
<4> thx
<2> Haha, hey Falchion
<1> Silver: Happens everywhere. Like my dad says, human nature hasn't changed in the last 10 millenia. :)
<2> kkaisare: We don't use sticks to get our woman now, just alcohol.
<2> We've gone from being forceful to being sly!:) Ok now I'm being silly.
<5> And cholorophorm
<1> Silver: We know that power corrupts, yet in society, a power struggle is inevitable.
<1> KF: Amen to that. At least both partners know each other's intentions.
<6> kkaisare: not that approach..
<0> kkaisare: but, in the last 10 millinia, never before now has it been so easy for the banks to siphon money out of pockets. That's why, over the last 10 millenia, the situation has rarely reached the level it's at now. Prior to computerized direct deposit and worldwide currency it was much easier to resist and balance taxation and money laundering. It's so transparent now, however, that it's almost impossible to catch.
<1> Silver: I must go. Have a few errands to run. Be back in a bit.
<0> kkaisare: have a pleasant journey
<7> salz
<8> Well, I just made money out of doing something totally useless; ssl name based vhosting ;)
<0> Lion-O: It works out well for some people. :)
<0> The only dependency is your position in the pyramid
<8> told the customer that it was a hoax, showed him the flawed configuration used by that POS 'SMEServer' but he insists... SSL host config entries need to be in it too.
<8> SilverspurG: hehehe
<8> I really can't believe this SMEServer crap...
<0> and the customer has paid you well to add those config entries?
<8> For example... They define a few virtual hosts, then at another part of the config it sets up the directory permissions (<Directory>) but for each and every entry it uses
<8> AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .php3 .phtml
<8> AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps
<8> lessee
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