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Comments:
<0> Jostein: sure...but (here at least) there aren't many people afvertising looking for suse skills. It's mostly redhat skills
<0> DaveHowe: WHY? It's ****!
<1> smsie: yeah, we get good people. Anyone who comes on board with us usually has to run the gauntlet. They have to get by most of our core team. Even if I'm hiring a sysadmin/engineer type, they generally have to interview with me, corporate network admins, lead devleopers, and that's before we even let them talk to a VP or someone who can actually make a decision.
<2> why doesnt deb have a yast type thing? Where you can install packages, configure them, etc, etc, from one nice program, such as Yast?
<3> aptitude?
<0> Steakk: you mean like...aptitude?
<4> synaptic? aptitude?
<5> Steakk: you mean like dselect ?
<1> smsie: when the development teams hire people, they bring me in for at least a 15 minute question/answer type thing before they make a decision (and I have nothing to do with the development process beyond making sure the systems under thier software work)
<2> well, dselect is just package specific, doesnt Yast allow things like system configuration though?
<6> dselect ...yea if you're talking about Hamm
<0> siglite: sounds like you have it made :)
<2> IE: network config, server config, etc, etc
<1> smsie: we've only made one hiring mistake.
<7> Steakk: yast can do everything on the system iirc
<5> Steakk: ah, yast2 has certain modules for that. yes. But programs like that also exist on Debian, think about webmin for example.
<0> Steakk: yeah, but it's as bad as RH stuff. If you use it once, you have to ALWAYS use it, and you are *****ed* if you need to do something it can't handle
<1> smsie: and in that case, everyone got conned. The guy could sling around terminology and theory like there was no tomorrow, but when it came implementation time, he couldn't get anything done.
<7> Steakk: and you have yast, yast2 and yast3 for your different likings. they all do the same though
<2> Lion-O: I have thought about things like webmin, yes...and smsie that is true.
<5> and I agree with smsie
<0> siglite: ****s
<2> I was debating a while back writing a All-In-One configuration thing for deb...gave up quick though
<5> same applies to webmin. So far all the frontends I've seen can't compete with learning how to do stuff yourself.
<2> wh00t
<2> solaris is at 97%
<1> Lion-O: smsie: yeah, that's my gripe with suse too.
<7> Steakk: solaris is hell
<2> Jostein: I am going to find out now :)
<7> Steakk: no virtual consoles :(
<5> Jostein: so ?
<2> well, if its at 97%, I will find out in about 3 hours
<0> Steakk: WHY? What *possible* advantage is there to such a tool? It is inevitable that it won't fit all occasions
<5> Jostein: why would you need virtual consoles?
<2> smsie: true, true
<1> I think the logical progression into linux is slackware->mandriva/suse/deadrat->debian|debian-derivative
<0> Steakk: what Debian has (debconf) is reasonable and non-invasive
<7> Lion-O: its probably OK if you are willing to learn it. I wasn't. call me lazy
<7> Lion-O: it just didn't -feel- right, the way linux and BSD does
<2> siglite: thats not the logical, thats the lamer way...starting with Slackware
<1> a possible acceptable variation to that is gentoo.
<7> Lion-O: it's all opinion I guess
<1> Steakk: starting with slackware is a Good Thing IMO.
<5> Jostein: Well, you can setup getty on Solaris and have several tty's. But indeed; standard it has 1 console and thats it.
<0> siglite: that used to be the case. I don't think many start with slack any more
<5> Jostein: But heck; its also aimed at a different audience I think :)
<1> Steakk: if you've never used slackware, and had to spend 10 hours un****ing dependency spaghetti, you'll never appreciate apt-get or whatever gentoo calls 'ports'
<2> Slack is just a bunch of BS now...Granted, I did start with slack, then went to RH, then MDK, then Deb and have been using deb for about 4 years now, but still...slack just scuks
<0> I fell in love with Debian the day I tried to install kde
<2> smsie: apt-get install kde ... works wonders :)
<1> smsie: man, I installed kde from source on slack once. oh god it hurt.
<2> I've installed KDE from sources on deb
<8> once I got around the installer for deb it was a easy choice to drop slacl
<2> just recently too
<0> I was expecting a 2 day struggle like I'd have had on redhat or similar. "vi /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-get update && apt-get install kde2"
<8> er slack
<0> ****
<1> Steakk: that's different, because even with source, debian sorts out dependencies.
<0> and it was only that hard becase at the time troltech were being bastards with licensing
<2> siggie: not if you do it via tarballs, which is what I did.
<2> 400 different tarballs, to be exact
<0> Steakk: why would you want to do something stupid like that?
<1> slack just spits out a compiler failure, and looks at you all smug like. "what library ya missin' now? beyoch?"
<2> smsie: had to...with KDE switching to CPP or whatever, it wouldnt install via apt...too many dep issues
<2> okay...Solaris is booting...
<2> slowly but surely
<0> I love rpm when it goes "missing library libfoo.so.19.compiled.on.Bobs.box.3.years.ago
<2> smsie: LoL
<1> hahahah
<7> Lion-O: I just cant miss a oppurtunity to say "solaris ****s" when you are around :P
<2> Lion-O: you gonna be around for a few minutes?
<7> Lion-O: so I guess its sorta personal *grin*
<5> aaaah, that felt good 8)
<2> Lion-O: I might ask for your ***istance with a few things(network related), if I cant figure it out once this is done booting.
<0> Steakk: network related things on solaris: The configuration is split up in about 47 different files in /etc. There's 5 or 6 different files per physical interface, and you etter HOPE you don;t need any logical interfaces too!
<2> thats what I thought
<7> heh
<2> smsie: I thought it was 49 files in /etc though...not 47
<0> Solaris badly needs a /etc/network/interfaces :)
<2> yes it does
<0> Steakk: it might be, depends how many physical interfaces you have, and whether you're multihomes
<8> port it
<5> smsie: absolutely not
<0> s/s$/d/
<0> XyZzY: I would, but then it becomes "not supported", and manglement hates that
<5> smsie: that would mean I'd have to *edit* a file. I'd rather use the current setup (/etc/inet/hosts) since you'll have to edit that anyway
<0> Lion-O: and you won;t have to edit /etc/hostname.<device> ?
<8> smsie: so port it, then the solaris people pick up on just how nice that is then it bcomes the standard
<5> smsie: no, only touch it.
<8> s/that/then
<2> damned install is still going...now its tryin to find the docs, but cant..so, skipped that step, and now it cant find the Java Enterprise System
<0> Lion-O: and /etc/inet/defaultroute.<device>? (if I got that right...I hate solaris netowrk configuration)
<5> smsie: you don't need that perse.
<5> /etc/defaultrouter if you need a defaultroute
<0> XyZzY: never happen. Solaris NEVER changes anything. That would break compatibility :)
<2> hah
<0> there's probably **** still in Solaris since it was called SunOS 20 years ago
<5> for example... /etc/hostname.rtls0 which contains the hostname for that device on my box. /etc/inet/hosts determines the IP adress which is ***ociated. If I want dhcp its even easier: touch /etc/dhcp.<device> and I'm done.
<0> you call that *easy*? :)
<9> I call that obtuse and ***backward
<5> smsie: actually I do..
<2> Lion-O: keeping it all in /etc with out a subdir is just messy
<0> Lion-O: I guess it comes to what you're used to. I personally find it confusing and obtuse
<5> smsie: if I want dhcp on Debian I'd have to edit the interfaces file and add specific stuff to it. In both cases everything is documented so its not really that hard, still...
<2> they should have it in /etc/networking/dhcp/device, or something like that
<2> to keep things clean
<5> Steakk: /etc has basic setup, /etc/inet had network setup.
<5> Steakk: I mean... On Linux you have /etc/hostname too right?
<5> so why not allow the system to determine the hostname per device?
<2> hrmmm
<2> solaris didnt reboot into an X window
<0> Lion-O: what? "echo - 'auto <device>\niface <device> dhcp\n' >> /etc/network/interfaces" ?
<2> if it dont go this time, **** it...booting debian, and going to watch a movie
<0> s/-/-e/
<5> On the inside my box is magi.intranet.lan, on the outside it has totally different names. There is some very good logic at work here, you just have to understand/learn/grasp it. Basicly the same as with Debian, that focusses on 1 file for all your interfaces (/etc/network/interface).
<5> smsie: huh?
<2> Lion-O: which is better? CDE or Java Desktop System 3?
<0> Lion-O: I'm sure once you grok it, it makes sense. It just seems unecessarily confusing to me
<2> s/3/Release 3/
<5> Steakk: hmm, apples/oranges :P what do you like best, KDE or Gnome? ;) I am not getting into that.
<2> I prefer KDE. Which woudl resemble KDE and its workings?
<0> Lion-O: that's all the editing required to make a device grab dhcp on debian
<5> Steakk: neither. Perhaps java desktop, but thats gnome.
<2> ACK..CDE ****s
<10> Hey Steak, how's your hand?
<2> SSigSeg: hehe
<5> smsie: oh, yeah. well, in this case its "touch /etc/dhcp.<interface>" and you're done ;)
<5> hmm... /me grabs movie
<2> Lion-O: okay...where do I begin to try to get this box online?
<5> Steakk: hmm?
<2> Lion-O: booted up just fine...cant ping a damned thing though..so, gotta configure an interface...iirc, it uses the tulip driver in linux
<5> Steakk: time to check if it has any interfaces.. use ifconfig to list them all and see.
<2> no 'network config panel' that i can find
<2> Lion-O: 'ifconfig' just returns a list of options, no devices
<5> Steakk: so use the option to list all devices :P
<5> -a iirc
<2> only lo0 shows
<0> Steakk: http://solaris-x86.org/documents/guides/interfaces.mhtml (might be helpful)
<2> smsie: lemme load that up on a diff box here
<5> And there is also http://docs.sun.com/ I spend hours there, very complete.
<0> Steakk: loook in dmesg to see what the physical device is caled (probably something like rtls0 or somesuch)
<5> Steakk: in this case you could probably wing it by trying "fdisk -a plumb". That "prepares" all devices it detected. If there are some they should list after that.
<2> nothing showing if I grep for rtl in dmesg
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