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Comments:
<0> PolarWolf: yeah, there's whole rafts of protocols to follow there :)
<1> smsie: *nod*
<0> PolarWolf: any US hospital system is at least 60% financially oriented...the patient care gets a tiny corner of the system
<2> Tamahome_: erm, who owns linksys???
<1> smsie: Luckily that's the US and we live in the EU :P
<1> crisco
<0> PolarWolf: feel free to stick comments in for any bits you disagree with. I'm just sketching it out at the moment. Nothing is fixed yet :)
<3> Dave: doh... I forgot
<0> PolarWolf: your input is valued. You're not at all bad at this data model design (even if you claim otherwise :)
<1> smsie: Heh, it's just a specific field I happened to work in earlier in my career
<0> PolarWolf: yeah, if I weren't so utterly disgusted with the quality of what's around at the moment, I wouldn't even think of starting something this bifg
<0> PolarWolf: but I figure if I don't get off my arse and at least try to write one myself, I can't talk about how crap everyone else is from a position of strength :)
<1> smsie: I have experience with something called "ZIS" (Hiscom, dutch) and a datawarehouse which ties it all together developed by a company named "Two Way".
<0> PolarWolf: not familiar with either
<1> smsie: And a lot of little satellite custom crap written in various languages like foxpro, access, etc
<0> PolarWolf: we have our own data warehouse (developed in house) which ****s HARD!
<0> PolarWolf: "Normalise a database? What's normalise mean?"
<1> My job was to pull data from all of those sources into the datawarehouse and run reports on it
<2> smsie: normally, to take the same data from one or more tables where it is duplicated, and put it in a single table with references to that data in the other tables
<0> DaveHowe: I know....note the "" :)
<1> smsie: The datawarehouse I used was normalized to the point of being near unusable due to all the little fuking reference tables with weird names :P
<1> smsie: Not to mention crappily documented
<2> smsie: I know you know. I was being sarcastic too ;)
<0> DaveHowe: ah :)
<0> PolarWolf: I have a HARD rule where I am. I develop a module of the system, then I stop for a week and I document it. I DO NOT move to the next thing until thje thing I just did is documented
<2> smsie: and in the Real World, normally a fully normalized database is unusable...
<0> Whoever inherits from me will NOT inherit the ****ing mess I found
<2> smsie: works well for toy problems though :)
<0> DaveHowe: I know that too. *some* normalisation is a good thing though :)
<2> smsie: normally, normalization only works well if you can group several items into an invariant record that can be linked to as a whole
<0> I tend to want to design database tables that closely match my object model
<2> smsie: fans of normalization will happily drag individual fields into their own tables with their own indexes though, then wonder why it is no more efficient (and often less so) than just using the data in place
<0> there's some stuff that should be in its own table. Things like religious affiliation. There *are* only so many...
<0> no need to store "Roman Catholic" half a million times if I can store it once and store "4" the other times
<1> I remember having to deal with all kinds of stupidity
<2> smsie: true enough; however, you can take it too far. there are only "so many" first names and surnames out there, but normalizing those out is insane...
<1> Like the treatment codes which keep changing.
<0> DaveHowe: oh, I wouldn't be arsed normalising that...that's just silly
<1> From date <someday>, <thiscode> will henceforth be known as <thatcode>
<0> DaveHowe: for that matter, there are only a finite number of dates of birth. I wouldn't normalise that either :)
<2> smsie: tell me about it. postcode, when you don't have or care about the full address for example.
<4> Well, finally making progress...
<0> DaveHowe: ah, we pay $****LOADS for some off the shelf database that turns postcode into address. All the patient needs to give is postcode and house number. It's quite nifty
<1> If a table has 20 fields or more, you did something wrong
<0> PolarWolf: the main patient table in our data warehouse has almost 400...
<1> If a table consists of 20 fields from which 19 are foreign keys, you did something wrong
<2> smsie: indeed. $FORMER_EMPLOYER did the same - but *still* had an address table, which had only two columns - house number and postcode - and only one linked table - customer details
<0> "foreign keys? What are they? We just want it to look like excel!"
<1> smsie: Yeah, well, it happens
<4> One step forward, two steps back...
<0> it *does* make for very simple queries
<3> (sh)it happens
<1> smsie: I think the main table I was using had like 25 fields or so, and was 16 million records long. Only a medium sized hospital though, and the data was aggregated already
<0> which is quite lucy as the information team couldn't write a complex query with a gun to their heads
<5> PolarWolf: wow. Some DB.
<5> "Aggregated"?
<1> smsie: I never had any formal education in DB design or whatnot, but I do have a sense what's workable :P
<2> smsie: anyhow - to cut a long (and now quite divergent) story short - I put a fully bonded config in tonight, at 6pm. sicsos went offline for reboot at 6pm sharp, were back up and routing in fully bonded mode at 6:03
<1> Viking667: You have no idea how much details a single patient generates in a hospital
<3> viking: some of the fields were summated already rather than doing it on the spot
<1> Viking667: *everything* gets recorded
<0> DaveHowe: nice! Are you a hero? :)
<2> dunno. will see tomorrow when I log it into the helldesk system as completed, customer estatic :)
<3> so, how many of us in #linux do or have worked in a hospital IT department? *raises hand*
<2> well, AFTER I go install deadrat :(
<5> "summated"? Think of me as totally DB-illiterate. All I know of is what a field is, and what a column is. That's pretty much it.
<3> summated is a mathematical term :P
<1> Not only in IT, also in accounting. The datawarehouse was their responsibility, not IT's :)
<1> I worked Helldesk there too.
<5> Well, summated means "all summed up to provide a total"
<1> Viking667: That pretty much what happens when stuff gets aggregated, yeah
<5> err, so where's the totals stored? Within the DB?
<3> viking: so a number field, or a currency field can be put through a function in SQL that will sum up the contents of each row and give a total... but sometimes for performance reasons, that sum will get stored rather than computed.
<5> ahhh.
<5> Present in both MySQL and PostGreSQL?
<3> think about it, summing 16 million rows is no laughing matter
<3> viking: yes.
<1> Viking667: Especially in a datawarehouse it makes more sense to aggregate than to (re)store the records
<5> eeeeexactly. How often is the sum updated?
<3> viking: that is application dependant
<6> Tamahome_: it's only funny until your CPU melts.
<3> anyways, dinner is ready so I must be off
<0> grr, ****ing caching DNS
<6> smsie: eh?
<1> Viking667: In a datawarehouse? Depends on the application, but as little as possible :)
<5> ohhh, right. So as a new entry is added, the sum just gets added to the stored sum... how would THAT work for load?
<7> but I don't do AAA
<7> just A
<5> siglite: ah huh.
<0> Ka-bar: I ****ed up the zonefile, www. didn't resolve. After fixing the zonefile my ISP is refusing to resolve it because it has that it won't resolve cached. Nothing that's your fault, all mine (and my retarded ISP)
<1> IIRC we ran a query every week or so to aggregate some data from the main table into another aggregation table to make queries faster
<2> siglite: few people do; I am not on the 6bone in any respect any more, so an AAA would be of no value...
<4> siglite: Me too, when it does what I want it to.
<4> siglite: Oh, and I think it is now. =)
<6> smsie: well, of course it wouldn't be my fault. But it could be Falchion's... :)
<1> Anywaym shuteye time
<7> I love the freeradius documentation.
<4> siglite: I've been ****ing with it for two hours.l
<0> Ka-bar: nah, unlikely to be Falchion's
<6> In fact, since I don't work at Dyn anymore, everything is Falchion's fault.
<7> and by "freeradius documentation" I mean the config file.
<5> I haven't seen it anywhere, yet,
<6> siglite: lol
<8> siglite: you should try cistron radius :P
<8> siglite: and by should, i mean shouldn't.
<7> seriously, freeradius has to be the most poorly documented and widely functional piece of software on the internet. How anyone gets it to work at all is beyond me, but everyone seems to make it work. I did.
<8> Viking667: uh...
<4> siglite: yeah, i've been running it for about 2.5 years.
<9> Viking667: eh
<6> Viking667: Uh, dude
<10> What am I missing?
<8> i figure that was a wrong button or two
<5> usability test. That was supposed to fail. I'm surprised it didn't.
<7> Viking667: AAA == Authentication, Authorization, and Accounting. All those things radius provides.
<7> The first two A's are easy. The third can be a big ole PITA.
<8> siglite: exactly
<7> I think JG's doing all three.
<5> there seem to be four ways of communicating within a channel. Straight messages like this, /notice #channel message, /action this-message, and /notice @#channel All ops message.
<8> especially when you're relying on proxies to send you all the accounting data in a timely/reliable fashion :/
<5> I'm not sure about any others that are channel-specific.
<7> Viking667: I bet that /notice test fails now :)
<4> Damn I'm good.
<5> true. That is one way.
<4> Well, that was fun.
<11> My computer must hate me, used apt-get to install the bluez stuff, and started to configure the bluetooth on the new machine, nothing worked, now when I compile the source I hardly even had to touch the configurations.... anyone else had problems with bluez over apt-get?
<4> Later peeps.
<5> yeesh.
<12> Viking667: you forgot /dcc #channel
<5> RelDrgn: huh? That WORKS??
<12> yeah, go somewhere else and try /dcc #channel ping or version
<12> with emphasis on SOMEWHERE ELSE :p
<5> unknown command, in either case
<12> maybe it was dcc ping #channel :P
<5> i.e. /dcc #channel blah, or /dcc blah #channel
<7> I think /dcc #channel command
<7> or /dcc command channel or some ****.
<5> Tried both ways, don't work for "version"
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