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Comments:
<0> safemode: I still dont consdier it a PC
<1> you've at least got EFI.
<2> consider it what you want, hardware is hardware
<2> and that being said, it's not the hardware that is keeping the devices from working, it's the software. PC has nothing to do with it.
<1> safemode, we're making the distinction between hardware that still has components from the original IBM PC and hardware that does not.
<2> my botherboard doesn't have parallel ports, serial ports... or ps/2 ports. or isa ports. No legacy ports at all.
<1> (its been my experience, for example, that at least 90% of modern peecees still use the same serial port IO controller as the original IBM peecee -- you know, the one that sends a BREAK on boot-up)
<2> does that mean I dont have a PC?
<1> if you have a floppy drive, you're using the original floppy disk controller?
<2> i dont have a floppy drive either
<2> haven't used them in years ...well before this latest computer
<2> my hdds are sata and peripherals are usb
<2> monitor is dvi ...not vga.
<0> I dont have a Floppy either. I have a PCI-e Video card... whats new?
<3> so, the name of the two manuals: "x86 Device Configuration Guide" and "x86 Driver Update Guide"
<2> indeed, i have a pci-e x16 card. not even "legacy" agp
<0> Hell, I dont even have a Floppy controller so....
<3> Did a search at docs.sun.com, doesn't even exist when I did the search.
<0> The only thing thing I guess could be considered legacy PC is the Bios.
<2> so the distinction between what's pc and what's not PC can't be done by legacy interface support. the new mac's are PC's. like it or not. apple users will have to find something else to be pretentious about.
<0> Maybe a few clock timers and such, but hell, thats getting picky
<3> hm. CMOS?
<0> Viking667: already stated.
<1> you're still forgetting APIC.
<0> Viking667: and not even THAT is PC..... thats AT
<3> interrupt controllers... hmm....
<1> whatever is replacing the original 8259A APIC controller might be better, but I haven't bothered to look at it.
<0> ACPI wasnt in the original PC...
<1> syn-ack, *APIC*
<1> not ACPI.
<1> and no, APIC wasn't in the original PC.
<0> err, Im sorry.... Stand corrected.
<3> oookay. So. We have DMA, 8259
<1> but its still a hacked-up interrupt controller.
<1> PIC was in the IBM PC, if I'm not mistaken, though.
<0> Im working on sATA, I dont think 8259 controls that.
<0> delewis: it was.
<0> safemode's right.
<0> I give up trying to think of what arch in this laptop could have been in an 8088
<0> Hell, can anything from even the processor other than the name be linked back to PC anymore?
<4> not if its legacy free :)
<5> syn-ack: core instruction set perhaps (it still used real-mode x86 processor instructions) but that'd be about it
<0> heheh, Real mode.....
<5> ***uming you are talking about the 8088 there :)
<2> even the instruction support is all merely an interpreted layer on top of the processor's internal instruction set.
<3> hm. Plenty of mentions OF the x86 Device Configuration Guide... just haven't SEEN the damn document.
<6> :P
<2> unlike the real 8088, newer processors dont use x86 internally. so saying that modern processors are linked in that way is like saying because I run a nintendo emulator on my computer, it's linked to nintendo
<6> well. duh
<6> its still a x86 for all things that matters
<2> indeed, but the hardware itself is not simply a shell over what the old 8088 was.
<0> safemode: Can I boot DOS 2 on my 8088? Yes. Can I boot DOS 2 on my Laptop? I dont see why not. :p
<0> wait, no I cant. I forgot that I threw my 8088 away YEARS ago. :p
<4> I never owned one - first pc I owned was a 286
<0> All I have to say is CGA is where its at. Who will ever need more than 8 colors?
<2> **** man, there's 8, that's 5 more than what TV uses to display pictures
<7> hi
<0> bye
<4> erm, its the same three tv uses....
<7> can i ask something :)
<0> nope
<7> about linux
<2> DaveH: we know.
<0> HeatoN: I dont know, can you? Are you able to?
<7> how to install linux
<0> HeatoN: Magic.
<8> HeatoN: read the installation manual.
<7> wher :(
<8> HeatoN: depends on your distribution.
<0> HeatoN: As a matter of fact, its a little voodoo thats involved... You have to shake a hairdoll over it.
<8> HeatoN: don't msg me, keep it in the channel.
<7> i
<7> have start.exe
<0> *blink*
<2> one of these days we'll have to figure out the units of bogosity that the tolerance quota can be set at so arbituary tolerances can be set op to op :)
<0> hahah
<4> bogon detection is an inexact science
<4> you pick up too many from randomly p***ing MCSEs to get an accurate reading..
<9> not if you kill any MCSEs within range
<4> its like trying to find somewhere without neutrinos to calibrate your detector
<9> syn-ack: oh, you aren't an MCSE, don't worry
<0> Wait, Do MCPs count?
<4> smsie: you would have to kill every one of them on the planet. I am not saying that is a bad idea, just logistically difficult...
<9> syn-ack: they're worse
<0> nnnnnnooooo. :p
<9> syn-ack: just holding a cert isn't a bad thing in itself though. True MCSEism is a state of mind
<0> smsie: I know, but you were getting too broad. :p
<4> smsie: its anti-clue plating, Clue just bounces off their mcse-shielded minds
<9> it's like you can have as many RHCEs as you like, but until you can show me, I won't believe you know a damn thing
<4> smsie: if you really want to torture them, give them slack... or gentoo :)
<0> smsie: I love you. :p
<9> DaveHowe: yeah, but if the bearer possessed clue before gaining the cert, then it has no effect in most cases
<9> syn-ack: umm, great. Wanna make some babies? :P
<0> wh000t
<4> smsie: yeah. I know a few people who got mcsen just so they could *authoratively* say MS ****s
<9> exactly
<0> smsie: as long as Im on top. Being on bottom hurts. :p
<9> I know a few who got them because their boss thought it would be a good idea as well
<4> smsie: its a pity they have to go, but some collateral damage is to be expected.
<9> syn-ack: you can be on top, as long as you don't put any ****ing salt in the lube this time!
<4> smsie: provided nobody mails the logtapes to The Sun, we will be fine :)
<0> smsie: aww, I thought you liked it. heheheheh
<9> DaveHowe: true. You could provide a test...should cut down somewhat
<4> smsie: that's an awkward one. MCSEs have already proven they can take and p*** tests without understanding what they are being tested on :)
<0> hahahahahah
<9> DaveHowe: not any test *I* write they can't :)
<9> "Here's a system. It's not booting. Fix it"
<4> smsie: that's why I like the cisco ccne final test. I would love a chance to get involved in setting those up :)
<9> anyone who even *thinks* "reinstall" as the first option is *toast*
<0> DaveHowe: One of my cousins is a MCSE... and MIS professional. Other than being a TOTAL MS zealot, hes a pretty bright mother****er.
<4> smsie: I would probably reinstall.. the mbr ;)
<9> anyone who reaches for a phone to call a consultant has a bullet with their name on it
<9> that would cut down about 50% of the field
<0> fixmbr C:\
<9> then you can look for clue
<9> anyone pulling a knoppix or barts out ptobably p***es (as long as they don't look like they're about to use it as a coaster)
<4> syn-ack: or boot Ranish and take a look. its amazing how many bad ghosts can be resolved by just setting the bootable flag
<0> Yep
<9> syn-ack: well done, you just toasted the ability to boot from the recovery system
<4> smsie: ranish would be my first port of call, not barts or a live cd - its quick to boot and lets me see what the hell is going on with the partitioning
<9> ranish is a good choice, yeah
<4> for that matter - check the bios is seeing the bloody drives :)
<9> another good suggestion
<9> check there's ****ing *power*
<0> ****, I dont even use Ghost or **** like that. I just back up over the network and ****, and if need be pop in my recoervery DVDs, though Im not in a mission critical enviroment. :p
<0> smsie: that was to you, ****er. :p
<9> syn-ack: I am :)
<0> smsie: heh.
<9> syn-ack: although, like you, I don't use ghost (bloated pile of unreliable ****e)
<10> Oh wow.
<10> I just discovered the "Switch between windows" button on the quick launch bar.
<4> smsie: I would argue it is better than novell's ZEN imaging system :)
<10> Ghost isn't bloated.
<9> DaveHowe: that's like saying that a bullet to the brain is better than slow suffocation :)
<0> smsie: I forget what we used at Verizon. I know it was a mixture of Ghost and something else though
<10> Hell, you can run it off of a floppy disk.
<10> We PXE boot it here.
<4> jlgaddis: yeah. I used to do that, or make a bootable cd of the image, with a bootstrap floppy that had the cd-rom driver on it and the dos command line to start a restore
<0> We would wipe the inital install of Windows and ghost one of our setups on it and go from there, over the network
<11> Any thoughts on writing exploits?
<9> jlgaddis: and that will get you to logged onto the domain and into the smb share where the images are stored?
<0> fruitbag: die.
<10> smsie: Yeah.
<9> fruitbag: no.
<9> jlgaddis: interesting, I hadn't realised the floppy boot could do that
<4> bah. can't kick in here :(
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