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Comments:
<0> i'm pretty sure "outside of america" is beyond the jurisdiction of those laws.
<0> i.e. if they're federal laws, outside the federal borders is open game.
<1> the deBeers family cannot travel to the US anymore
<2> OldMonk: national sovereignity is p*** anyway :P
<0> if it's a state law, outside the state borders is open game.
<0> that's how jurisdiction works.
<1> NineVolt: not if the other states have extradition agreements.
<1> NineVolt: which they all do.
<0> o_O
<3> NineVolt: yes, but you wouldn't be able to return to the US ..
<0> no, i'm saying that i would.
<3> NineVolt: like that russian scientist that got invited to a conferance and got picked up on the airport
<0> because they would be unable to charge me with violating any laws.
<3> for voilating us law..
<0> really.
<4> TenBaseT_: We won't extradite somone unless it's a crime here too, and the death penalty is waived.
<0> the thing is, i've never seen a us legal jurisdiction greater than federal.
<0> and federal, by definition, is limited to the country.
<0> not the world.
<1> NineVolt: if you have a warrant in Georgia, for example, and it shows up in the police database during a traffic stop in Maine, you'll most likely be detained while they get a hold of the police in Georgia to ask them if they want you to be held for transport back
<3> NineVolt: strasbourg would come to play here
<1> actually, 'federal' means 'a collection of states'
<3> NineVolt: human right's thingie..
<0> consequently, there's no way you could use a us federal law to prosecute in court people that committed crimes abroad.
<1> wlfshmn: we're talking about moving people around inside US states.
<3> NineVolt: and EU court..
<4> TenBaseT_: We see no real reason to be nice to US LE, when you guys refuse to extradite to us.
<5> how about incidents committed in other solar systems?
<6> the other problem is that with the PDPS, you can't escape tickets in previous states to get a license in a new state
<5> that whole anal probing thing..
<1> wlfshmn: yeah, I dont blame you
<0> TenBaseT : that's not what i'm talking about.
<0> lets say putting a pig in a bathtub is illegal in ohio.
<4> TenBaseT_: Plus, last time we did extradite to you guys, you flew the guys to Eqypt and had them tortured
<0> if you put a pig in a bathtub in indiana, you're not violating any laws.
<0> consequently, you cannot get prosecuted in ohio.
<1> Oh, I see. No.
<0> obviously, if you break a law in america, flee to a foreign nation, i would understand why extradition might be an issue.
<5> Pig Bathers Local 42
<0> or why coming back to the US might be an issue.
<0> but if you go abroad and violate US law there (while obeying all local laws), you have not committed any crimes.
<7> NineVolt: are you sure?
<0> then again, i am not a lawyer.
<4> NineVolt: well, if you break us law (and it's swedish law too) and you flee here, you will get extradited because why the heck should we hold on to your criminals? ;)
<0> indeed, which is reasonable.
<0> but in the context of smoking cubans.
<5> hey OM
<6> yeah, US laws don't apply in say Canada
<3> wlfshmn: he'd have a better go in .no, apparently we welcome them with open arms
<1> YES, THEY DO.
<0> as long as wherever you're at doesn't have an embargo on cuban goods too, you're fine.
<3> wlfshmn: as long as the christian fundamentalist can claim that it is a victory for ***ylum or something
<7> NineVolt: e.g. iran doesn't have copyright, so if you flagrantly violate copyright there, won't the americans hunt you donw like a dog when you return?
<1> It's illegal for US citizens to purchase cuban cigars anywhere.
<4> NineVolt: no. we don't have an embargo against cuba, so feel free to import cigars by the container if you wish. as long as you pay taxes. ;)
<0> and upon your return, you can be very candid with the customs agent about you having splurged on as many cubans as you could smoke while you were outside the country.
<0> and you should be fine.
<1> you'll be admitting to felonies if you do.
<0> TenBaseT : what if you have dual citizenship?
<5> feh. y'all shouldn't be smoking in the first place.
<8> i just instaled Gaim 2 beta 6 on a suse 10.2 box and it compiled withouth errors but when i run it i get a error : could not fing libgaim.so.0 but this lib is in /usr/lib . How can i find where gaim is looking for ?
<6> TBT...no, it's NOT, it's illegal to bring them into the US, but if you are out of the US, you can buy them legally
<0> and US law only applies in the US and its holdings.
<7> danieLs0xFF: run ldconfig
<1> dogbert2: not anymore, in 2006 the law was strengthened.
<1> NineVolt: not if you're a US citizen.
<3> NineVolt: I only smoke good cuban cigars, otherwise I tend to agree :p
<4> NineVolt: .. and to US citizens.
<0> TenBaseT : state law?
<1> NineVolt: if you're a US citizen US law applies everyhere.
<8> OldMonk : i try now thank you
<0> local ordinance? federal laws?
<1> US federal law.
<0> false.
<0> by definition, federal law applies to the country espousing it.
<6> uh huh...i'd LOVE to see someone in the US try to fine me for buy a cuban cigar in say mexico...two words, it ain't gonna happen
<0> not to its citizens.
<0> federal jurisdiction is not global.
<1> You are incorrect.
<0> it's nationwide.
<8> OldMonk : it works now, thank you
<2> NineVolt: they are carefully trying to brainwash you into believing that
<4> dogbert2: I think we all agree it's utterly unlikely to actually result in anything. Besides, your judge would probably smoke a cuban himself wheil mulling your sentence.
<3> NineVolt: a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both"
<0> is there a statute of limitations on smoking cubans?
<0> i had a few in antigua
<2> NineVolt: imagine the nice propaganda they could pull off after that!
<3> NineVolt: note: "to the responsibilities of both"
<0> but that was like 4-5 years ago.
<1> the US govt cannot prosecute a frenchman for buying a cuban cigar, but they can very much prosecute US citizens for that.
<0> i'm about to go confess, see if they prosecute me.
<1> no matter where it happens.
<2> NineVolt: "Iran broke US law <blah blah>. so we must fight these criminals!"
<0> just to prove my point.
<0> Jostein : ha
<7> bah, they can prosecute frenchmen too. remember the ebook crypto fiasco with that russian chap?
<3> NineVolt: in norway the constitution states no law shall have backwards effect
<9> I for one am happy to see multiple countries have applied that as a general rule of thumb, particularly with the ***-industry travels etc.
<3> ok.. badly paraphrased, but it happened before the law got enacted..
<4> TenBaseT_: The US seems to feel it can charge frenchmen for handling US gambeling transactions
<6> cl***ic example...the Bush twins go overseas before they are 21, while there, they drink booze, cause they are old enuf legally in EU, hence no crime has been committed
<9> "if it's illegal in your home country, and you ***rape a 4 year old cambodian girl, you'll get punished"
<1> wlfshmn: thats teh funny thing about jurisdiction: one end of that transaction occurs in the US
<6> they come back to the US, and they get charged...don't think so :)
<2> wlfshmn: its not the US citizen breaking local laws. no no :P
<0> TenBaseT : exactly.
<4> dogbert2: atleast here, it isn't a crime to drink when you are underaged. It's a crime to serve someone that is underage, and it's a crime to show a false ID, but the drinking itself would be legal
<2> so if you get internet from vegas, internet gambling is legal?
<0> where is this 2006 extension to the law?
<6> but if the transaction is outside of the US or it's territories, the US gov't can't do ****
<0> that extends the federal jurisdiction to the whole globe?
<0> i mean, i don't believe you. gimme a url :P
<4> TenBaseT_: your antigambeling laws aren't even in effect yet!
<4> TenBaseT_: They are charging them with transactions that took place two years ago
<6> Jostein...US DoJ has stated that Internet Gambling is illegal via the Wire Act...
<2> dogbert2: oh RIGHT! because THAT makes sense
<6> Jostein, I didn't say I agree with it, but it's the law
<2> dogbert2: lets also charge all ISPs for peddling child porn shall we?
<1> Ninevolt: Wiki refers to it in several places, and I'm looking for the law now
<2> dogbert2: Im not saying so.
<6> Jostein, pfft...fat chance
<3> Jostein: lobbied by the state of nevada :)
<3> Jostein: Las Vegas was loosing good revenue
<1> NineVolt: I remember watching the press conference where tom delay announced it.
<7> K_F: haahaa!
<2> hahahaha
<2> gotta love corrupt govts
<0> i think you misunderstood tom delay :P
<6> K_F, actually, NV didn't do any lobbying at all on this...it was the anti-gamers which went after it
<3> dogbert2: officially, sure..
<7> Emerson
<3> dogbert2: but if I was NV I'd pull some trings to get the anti-gamers started :)
<3> strings*
<4> dogbert2: makes sense. They knew they could never get at the organized gambeling in-country, so instead go after the offshore one..
<6> K_F...actually, NV has been struggling with internet gambling for a while...
<4> dogbert2: after all, it's only effect is improving the trade deficit ;)
<6> wlfshmn...actually, they only bust 'em when they enter the US (or a territory)
<3> dogbert2: exactly
<3> like with the russian dude
<6> A judge granted bail Tuesday to a NASA astronaut charged with pepper-spraying a romantic rival before attempting to kidnap her from a parking lot at the Orlando airport.
<3> of course, it is generally a matter of getting bail and getting the hell out of there
<4> dogbert2: yeah. so you sit in france and you are an executive at a french company that handles transactions online, and then a year after you quit that job, you go on vacation to the american virgin islands and you get hauled to jail.
<4> dogbert2: yay freedom.
<2> K_F: no
<2> K_F: it a reason never to go there in the first place
<2> K_F: heck if I know if I have broken US laws
<3> dogbert2: something about having a wig and something too
<4> Jostein: That and the mandatory finger-rpinting
<2> I dont even -know- US law
<2> wlfshmn: yeah
<3> Jostein: fairly sure you've violated drinking laws
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