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Comments:
<0> other example; you logon to X and what do you get? "Undernet wil NEVER ask you for your p***word". Yet many keep on pretending and may keep on giving their p***words.
<1> So you never use eBay and never get "You've won $item, click here to make payment"
<0> s/may/many/
<2> nomatter how many ****ing cl***es they go to, they still take notes on everything and replicate everything methodically
<2> they cannot comprehend the logic behind it, they just follow steps
<0> fredk-: yet they ignore to follow the steps telling them not to follow those.
<3> er if
<2> Lion-O, you try remembering *everything*
<4> s/firefox/epiphany/
<2> it's how these people learn, they don't understand..they memorize
<0> fredk-: you make it sound as if its rocket science.
<3> if linux could be mainstream then we would be i really good shape
<5> hah! Even Opera has its problems. Occasionally it dies, spontaneously, for no percievable reason.
<2> Lion-O, hey, i'm sure you've met some end users :)
<3> in
<4> Tawny, but linux is already becoming mainstream. look at Ubuntu and Fedora Core 5
<6> morning folks
<0> fredk-: so what about going to the paypal website *manually* after you got an e-mail telling you to logon? And yes; I have, and I know you're right. My only point is that I tend to agree with safemode that some people simply bring the trouble upon themselves.
<2> a guy at work has some lawyer friends, these are smart people, they win alot of cases and they do what they do VERY well
<1> How do you define "mainstream"? How many people do you know running Ubuntu/FC5 who aren't already at least fairly PC literate?
<3> yep and with vista being a mess the door will be wide open
<2> yet, they cannot comprehend a simple menu system on a cellphone
<2> Lion-O, I know you and I can pick up ANY device and instantly grok how to use it.
<0> fredk-: hmm, I'm a bit hesitated to say 'any' but I know I can grok a lot of them.
<5> fredk-: I hate how that works. Yet wife mostly can't do it.
<1> Whoops, how'd I switch subjects? :-P
<5> I can handle most things with the help of a manual. Yes, I actually READ those things... lol.
<2> hehe, okay ;) I can give a cellphone you've never seen to either of you guys and you will understand how to use it within 30 seconds
<0> fredk-: true. without the manual.
<2> 2 minutes and you've been through the majority of the capabilites of that phone
<3> a cell phone yes
<2> yes
<2> now, there's people who are actually struggling big time with these devices
<3> ask me to do open heart surgery i need a manual
<2> not because they're stupid, but because it's not in them
<5> ... though the manual for the DVD didn't explain how to set it to read any zone of DVD... that took a friendly staff ***istant at my local electrical parts shop.
<0> fredk-: hmmm
<1> Wasn't there a Family Guy like that Tawny? hehe
<3> yes here was lol
<5> fredk-: mmmm. Small wonder. Look what they can do now.
<0> fredk-: IMO its still for the most part an issue of trying to think logicly.
<2> sure
<5> Time I went.
<2> but logic may not be the same for you as it is for a doctor, or a lawyer
<1> "Cut that." *thud* "Did that kill me? That's what I though, ok, try that one over there."
<3> logical thinking and literacy go hand in hand. unfortunately most have not mastered it but it keeps me employed lol
<2> what seems logical to you is gibberish to another person
<1> Logic isn't all it's cut out to be.
<0> fredk-: hmm.
<7> leaving...
<0> fredk-: so when it comes to setting time on a phone its not logical perse to look for "phone settings" in the menu.. I dunno.
<2> Lion-O, for some people, its not. Believe it or not
<2> Lion-O, how would you like to be a politician? lawyer?
<0> fredk-: I believe it, I've seen it. But understanding it is another part 8)
<0> fredk-: I'm enclined to say that those people can't think logicly ;P
<2> hehe
<1> My phone doesn't have a "Settings". It has "Tools", "Services", and "Other" and where would you go to set the time on the phone? That's right, "Other", 'cause, ya know, that's logical, right?
<6> where's my ****ing coffee?!
<2> I mean, i'm myself guilty of this. If i'm trying to sell something to a techie, it's pretty easy.
<2> it products that is
<2> I just tell them, what it is..and they get it.
<2> try selling that to a non it person, and whenever he asks a question you always give vague answers because there IS no real answer.
<2> there is just odds.
<1> "And this won't crash, right?" "Well... not... as often as most systems..."
<2> exactly
<2> so, you add a loadbalancer and you will minimize the impact of a failure.
<2> but, it will be failsafe right?
<2> not a chance lol
<2> it's like gambling, the more 0's you add to the price the higher your odds of winning are
<1> heh
<2> not always, but alot of the time ;)
<0> oh well.. Its just like programming, some people use C# and some use Java. Some understand and some don't :P
<1> It's less a matter of logic and more a mixture of logic and experience.
<2> I mean, try explaining to a non techie why a design that is funamentally flawed but *works* needs to be redesigned.
<0> So... is it Evil MS for C# or is it Evil Sun for licensed Java or is it Evil RMS for being stupid? ;)
<1> Look at cooking... I mean world cl*** chef cooking... these guys are crazy, they put together things that I'd *never* think would taste good, but they know the chemistry and make up and how flavors work and come up with amazing stuff.
<2> yea
<1> Now, because I look at their works as they make them and go, "ewwww" does that make me stupid? Illogical?
<0> CeruleanD: that is the bottom line of True. In the normal world you'd become an apprentice and learn stuff in Real Life while being nothing and gain live experience. Recall Chefs mate?
<0> he can help make sauces in his 2nd year in the kitchen or something.. At 4th he can flavor some meat.
<2> yea, but there's more than that.
<0> but after 6 years he sure knows what the hell he's talking about.
<2> you can put me in front of a piano and tell me to play something, and even 10 years from now it would be ****ty.
<0> but today we learn from a book and we know after 3 months how its done.
<1> Right, that's my point, a lot of what you call "logic" in the PC world is only logical to you and I because we have years of experience with this stuff.
<2> put another person infront of a piano, and it's second nature to him/her
<0> fredk-: but that is why some people would chose for a career in music and some don't.
<2> yes, and some choose a career within IT and some don't
<1> If it takes 3 months to learn from a book, why do chefs still go through years of schooling? I've known enough "book" MCSE's who I wouldn't trust to install a service pack on a production server
<0> CeruleanD: aye. and that is also (but this is my VERY biased opinion) why MS is making very big progress in the consumer business and why techies hate it.
<2> but, those who don't choose IT have it shoved down their throat anyway from other people
<8> i need Help ppl :( pleace help me
<8> i installed Os Alt linux compact 2.3 version
<8> then i need configure to lan
<8> i have crosover connection to home lan.
<0> CeruleanD: I do agree that they stole most of their knowledge and technology but they sure know how to setup a user interface which cluebies can use
<2> I mean, try getting a job without knowing **** about computers
<8> i`m not server
<9> GENIOSI: sounds like you have a problem.
<2> GENIOSI, i'm not either
<1> Well, MS makes the progress because they're a "known name" and the non-technically literal Business School grad managers who are more concerned with money than technical aspects are the ones with control of the IT budget half the time
<10> good for you
<10> want a cookie?
<3> lol
<1> That's why Compaq and Dell can get away with building ****ty systems and yet still be two of the biggest names in the computer field.
<1> Cookies!
<0> CeruleanD: I've seen that in practice too. My old neighbors who are total illiterates when it comes to PC's did come through when installing XP Sp2. That is power by design IMO.
<2> but, essentially non techies have IT shoved down their throat anyway. Because they have no choice.
<0> CeruleanD: not installing XP but the SP2 update mind you 8)
<2> but, obviously, some people are just plain stupid ;)
<1> Yeah, you do have to give MS some credit, they make things pretty easy. Installing SP2 is just a matter of throwing in the CD and hitting the Install button that auto-pops up, heh.
<1> Well yeah, but those people are excluded from what we're talking about here, heh.
<10> Ceru: and hoping it doesn't hose anything
<0> fredk-: as someone who I come to respect from #java put it (lemme look)
<2> are you saying you don't respect us in here? :P
<1> Well yeah, but there's no way to prevent that, just lots of prayer and cashing in some good karma. ;)
<10> I don't like the false sense of security service packs give... people should still be trolling the event logs to make sure it all took.
<0> <Clackwell> yeah. and now people are trying to learn linux and java and eclipse/netbeans all at the same time. \ the required level of handholding/the noise of those is hard to bear.
<1> lol
<0> fredk-: ofcourse not :P
<2> hehe
<1> It reminds me of the golden years of IT when people were jumping ship from their regular jobs and getting their MCSE's by the droves.
<2> Lion-O, I mean, just *try* figuring out how a chick works :P
<3> MCSE = expensive joke
<0> fredk-: but the point is; some people want to dive into a topic (say Linux, C#, Java) but simply don't have the patience to work it out.
<2> there's nothing logical about that I tell ya
<0> fredk-: that is impossible
<1> "OMG! You make $howmuch at your IT job??? I'd better get my MCSE and then I can stop pumping gas for a living!"
<2> Lion-O, hehe see
<1> Yes, MCSE is a joke these days, but years ago when an IT manager saw it on someone's resume it made them all warm and fuzzy inside./
<10> Ceru: heh.
<0> fredk-: well, I have a good hunch though. you feed it chocolade and you get laid. You feed it chocolate again and you get smacked over the head because you're trying to make it fat.
<0> fredk-: So.. I worked out a formula
<1> lolol
<2> haha
<0> fredk-: when you're going to work in the morning and she didn't wish you a happy day you bring home flowers, then the next day when its your turn to cook you tell her you don't feel like it so she will, then the day after you buy her chocolates and you get laid. Logical no? :-)
<3> lion just talk to women, treat them with decency, sensitivity and act like you care then the stupid girls will do you 20 ways till sunday
<2> haha
<1> Just need to make sure that script is well written and starts up with your system every morning when you wake up.
<1> Put it in your mental rc.d
<2> Lion-O, so, pay attention to if she wishes you a happy day..and bring back flowers huh
<3> <- girl geek requires brains and geek talk
<1> Give is a S01 or S00 prefix,
<1> Er, give it
<8> :( pleace i need helppppppp :(
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