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Comments:
<0> and the EUR is taking over much of it
<0> sure you are
<0> you're a tax-paying citizen
<1> K_F: Maybe we shoudl simply stop giving away money to foreign countries and we shoudl probably ask for loans we've made to other countries to be repaid. That would fix our budget. But we're too nice a country.
<2> Falchion: that's a spurious argument
<0> ... maybe you should make quality products and increase the export :)
<2> it wouldn't even come CLOSE to fixing your budget
<1> smsie: No its not. If we're so in debt, we shouldn't be giving others money. Very simple.
<0> I am greatful for the Truman help though
<3> Falchion: the moment China starts collecting the US is bankrupt.
<1> K_F: we do make quality products.
<0> more USD in Asian than in US
<4> Falchion: its a start though. israel for the first step...
<2> Falchion: I agree, but it wouldn't fix the problems. The problem is on the order of trillions, not a few billions
<1> DaveHowe: Israel?
<5> Everyone is indebted to everyone else. Loans, debts and the trade therein are an economical necessity to keep the hot air bubble we all believe in inflated
<3> IMO the first thing the US needs is decent management.
<1> smsie: A few billions? hahaha you should look closer at how much we give out and how much we're still owed.
<1> Lion-O: The first thing the US needs to do is stop supporting everyone else.
<3> Falchion: like Iraq and Afghanistan? I agree.
<0> http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
<2> Falchion: ignore the "still owed". You ain't *never* getting that back (which you *knew* when you lent it in the first place...those were political loans, not economic loans)
<0> "The estimated population of the United States is 298,831,356
<0> so each citizen's share of this debt is $27,984.19."
<1> DaveHowe: An allie like Israel deserves our money. Its the rest of the countries we can't trust that shouldn't, IMHO.
<0> **** Israel
<0> and while I'm at it **** Palestina, they should both start behaving or be isolated
<1> K_F: Nope, **** your country instead.
<4> Falchion: and what does israel give the US that is worth the huge payments they get?
<0> DaveHowe: control , amazing what people do in the name of religion..
<0> DaveHowe: but the real thing is indeed control
<0> DaveHowe: jews own quite a lot in teh US
<1> DaveHowe: Our only allie in the mid east? Intel, man power, religious backing, etc, etc.
<0> not that it is anything wrong with it, just a factual statement with regards to the Israel conflict
<4> Falchion: not much of an ally. for that matter, weren't the saudis supposed to be your allies?
<6> heh
<2> Falchion: the totality of thrid world debt is about 3 trillion. Not all of which is owed to the US (about half of it is I think). The totality of US debt is 9 trillion!
<1> K_F: Uh. So do blacks, mexicans, christians, athiests, russians, purple people.. Er, Well, not the purple people. **** them. They don't own ****.
<1> DaveHowe: No, they weren't.
<0> Falchion: ?
<1> DaveHowe: And yes, they are "much of an ally".
<4> Falchion: odd, you went to war when the iraqis got stroppy with them
<1> K_F: Stupid comment you made about how Jews own a lot in the US.
<0> it was a descriptive one
<0> well, it has some normative elements
<1> DaveHowe: That doesn't make them a allie. It makes them a nation that asked us for help. In case you haven't noticed, the US does more to help other nations then ANY other nation out there. Manpower, money, political backing, etc.
<0> and as I said, nothing wrong about it, but it is why US is biased in the Israel conflict
<3> Falchion: uh huh
<2> Falchion: smoke and mirrors
<3> Falchion: like Liberia? A nation who is proud to be related to the US but then the **** hit the fan the US basicly ignored 'm ?
<1> K_F: No, that isn't why the US is "biased". You sound liek the KKK guys claiming that the Jews own everything and we're out to own the world.
<2> Falchion: in general, the help given is to aleviate ****ups made by american politicking
<3> s/then/when/
<4> Falchion: indeed so. you helped the afgans loads....
<0> Falchion: for one thing wasn't the KKK against blacks? and heck, I'd like to own everything myself, I have absolutely nothing against jews
<1> smsie: Bull****. Look at they money. Which nation gives the most in aid for natural disasters? The US. Who gets the least help from other nations during natural disasters? The US.
<0> but look at some statistics, there is a lot of aggregate financial capital
<2> DaveHowe: sure they did. They created a regime where terrorists were in power (although they were freedom fighters at the time), then ignored it for a decade, then got pissed off when it blew up in their faces
<1> K_F: Blacks, jews, mexicans and anyone else not a white purebreed.
<5> Who is the first to decline any offers for help with natural disasters?
<5> But that aside.
<0> Falchion: those statistics are biased as well, because it doesn't account for different ways of donations
<3> Falchion: euh.. Many people offered help when New Orleans was flooded but got basicly told "no way, we can handle it"
<2> Falchion: which nation has to do this so they look like the most powerful nation?
<3> s/people/nations/
<0> Falchion: like directly to different help organizations
<0> Lion-O: especially NL
<1> smsie: Uh, we don't need to look liek the mopst powerful, we ARE the most powerful.
<4> smsie: pretty much. they propped up the government until they got a better offer from the russians. then they propped up the rebels until the russlans gave up and left, then they wiped out the rebels and... well, its back to the warlords again it seems
<1> K_F: All that is tracked.
<0> Lion-O: you could have had people there to fix the dykes a VERY SHORT time after it
<2> Falchion: sure, but to BE the most powerful, you have to LOOK like the most pwerful
<0> but US said "no, we can handle it"
<3> K_F: *nod*. And now, *months* after the disaster they *still* dig up bodies from buildings. I mean, WTF?
<0> yeah
<1> smsie: We tried at least. More than most other countries have.
<0> Lion-O: complete disaster, thats for sure
<2> Falchion: most countries have enough sense to mind their own business...although most countries DO send aid in times of natural disaster
<1> smsie: So you're saying we give because we have to? That's simply bull****.
<3> K_F: still, eventually a team of Dutch water-control experts did go over there to aid them.
<2> Falchion: it may be bull****, but it's true
<0> Lion-O: I know, problem was it was way too late
<3> Falchion: Iraq was majorly funded by the US after they helped put Saddam into power...
<2> Falchion: being the most powerful caerries a burden of responsibility
<0> Lion-O: not like NL doesn't have experience in the area or anything..
<3> K_F: Sometimes people in Holland can overdo it IMO since there are many countries which have this kind of experience. But still...
<1> smsie: Sure it does. The burden of having jealous nations envy us. It's a heavy burden and we do stumble, but we keep truckin'. :P
<2> Falchion: much of the reason you ARE the most powerful is that everyone else (for the most part) agrees to your power
<0> Lion-O: not to the same extent, and you've had a disaster related to it before
<0> can't remember the year though
<1> smsie: They agree because we are th emost powerful. it's that simple. Think they'd stick around otherwise?
<3> K_F: *nod*. 1963 iirc from mind, the big flooding.
<0> sounds about right, yeah
<0> 60's something
<3> K_F: yeah
<5> Agreement at gunpoint is agreement too.
<2> Falchion: theystick around because the money keeps flowing...the money keeps flowing so they'll stick around...
<1> Why does th emoney keep flowing? because we're a generous nation.
<0> Lion-O: one of the things they mis-judged was how the water would spread
<3> smsie: and sometimes they stick around for their own impression and ambition. Like the Dutch mission in Afghanistan.
<0> that is where experience would have accounted for a great deal
<2> Falchion: partly, yes. Partly to maintain your position as well.
<1> If the US stopped being nice, the world would be ****ed, plain and simple. Zthe world depends on us too much.
<6> Falchion: we're the most powerful, as long as you overlook the lies and corruption dragging us down
<1> smsie: Wrong, we have the position BECAUSE we're generous, not the other way around.
<3> Falchion: I disagree.
<2> Falchion: that's just bull****
<1> RelDrgn: yeah, because our nation is the only one with a ****ed up gov't. right.
<1> Lion-O: Disagree all you want. it's IRC.
<6> Falchion: lies and corruption drag others down too.
<2> Falchion: they go together. Both are needed
<2> Falchion: carrot and stick
<3> Falchion: What nice things are being done? The US needs the world as much as the world needs the US, its *not* a one-way street.
<1> smsie: Nope.
<5> Falchion: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html
<2> Falchion: what will happen to the US when the world stops accepting dollars for oil do you think?
<2> Falchion: how *long* do you think the US will be powerful for then?
<0> smsie: I can tell you that the USD woudl depreciate greatly on that basis anyways
<0> would*
<1> smsie: Longer than any other nation out there.
<0> and Asia would start selling out USD
<0> Falchion: hell no
<1> K_F: hell yes
<2> Falchion: that's being blind then. NO other nation is as dependent on oil as the US is
<3> PolarWolf: too bad China isn't listed there, that country is making an awesome climb.
<1> smsie: We have plenty of oil ourselves you know. It's ratehr silly we aren't using it as much as we should.
<5> Lion-O: yeah, well, it's 2002 figures
<0> smsie: not entirely correct..
<3> PolarWolf: *nod*
<0> smsie: no other country is more dependant on IMPORTING oil
<1> Lion-O: Yeah, china is doing wonderful. Until they run out of women.
<0> smsie: Norway is very dependant on EXPORTING it
<0> we're the 3rd largest exporter in the world
<2> Falchion: being blind is fine, but when the bubble bursts, you'll wonder what the **** happened. You should be looking forward now IMO and preparing for when it happens (you as a nation I mean, not you personally)
<1> K_F: Unfortunately Norway doesn't have much else good going for it ;)
<0> Falchion: fish
<1> smsie: And we are
<1> K_F: hahahaha fish. There you go then.
<7> Norway's got some hawties though
<0> norway is one of the countries that could have survived the longest probably
<5> K_F: It's only a matter of time before .no will start to operate more like its neighbour, .se
<1> K_F: Bull ****.
<5> K_F: Entirely energy independant by what, 2015 or so?
<0> PolarWolf: if the socialistic govt would pull its head out of its arse and start building gas plants..
<5> Falchion: Oil, gas, fish, trees, chemicals, minerals, ore
<0> coal
<1> PolarWolf: Uh huh. Alrighty.
<5> coal
<3> Lumberjacks! ;)
<0> a fairly high educational level
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