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Comments:
<0> ShoNuff I think you should run along
<0> your not going to get far here
<0> you're
<1> ohh ok.. im just trying to help..
<0> how ?
<2> Help by educating, not giving code.
<0> I don't see you helping here at all, have I missed something?
<2> calchas: Sorry, it just strikes me as really stupid, and it causes people like me extra paperwork.
<0> yes that is true
<2> I have noted now to google forthe ***ignments I set.
<3> that ball-clock one is evil :)
<0> may be we should use exams and oral investigations to check for understanding
<0> I see less of that in recent years
<0> as an employer (for my corp) I dislike: shared project work
<0> but a half decent interview seperates those that know and did work from those that try to talk
<2> Right.
<2> Paper-based exams for grades is a poor idea though.
<0> and not asking questions to check understanding also ****s
<0> the approach - written exams have a proble so lets let them off with course work is flawed
<4> I've figured most of how StreamTokenizer works, but do not know why when I say '1234.', it parses the number without the '.' How can I set it so that it does not treat '1234.' as a number since it has '.' at the end?
<2> calchas: In my case, we replace it with a simulator.
<0> which establishment
<4> the strange thing is that when I have '1234,' it does not treat it as a number
<2> calchas: www.salford.ac.uk
<0> ok
<2> http://cime.net/~ricky/jws/ipsim.jnlp
<2> That's it. I write it.
<0> I need to upgrade to launch that
<0> I better take a look
<5> Is it possible to make a small program Java based with BlueJ if i never program something before? :P
<0> but it makes me feel very uneasy, I see CS students getting poorer and poorer of time, both in practical and specific knowledge, I believe the dgrees are moving from science to vocation and are poor at that, it troubles me and makes interviewing tough
<0> fastr1 it is possible to make a small program in java if you haven't before\
<0> IMO don't touch bluej with a barge pole
<0> get the tutorial, the jdk and the api docs from sun
<5> Bro i need to make a program for the 9 February
<0> www.thejavatutorial.com javasoft.com
<5> i received the homework today
<0> bluej will not make it any faster
<5> i know that
<0> and a decent editor (one you already know for preference)
<5> its just that the univeristy use bluej to code
<0> no they do not
<0> they use it as an editor
<0> it's an EDITOR
<0> and it ****s, based on the problems in here
<0> what is your ***ignment?
<5> do you understand french?
<0> no
<0> a brief sentance should describe
<6> Hmm I'd suggest that it is more than an editor... It doesn't allow you to write freeform java but instead 'plugins' to it's environment... Seems like a bad way to learn java - avoiding the fundamentals because they're 'boring'... Anyone then trying to step outside of bluej is screwed.
<0> that explains 95% of the issues in here
<0> ouch
<6> Stupid way to do it... obviate the need to learn about cl***paths, packages and what defines a java application in favour of writing UI code... noddies.
<6> I suppose a well-run course could use it productively but it seems more likely to do harm than good.
<6> We've got wars against terrorism, wars against drugs, how about a war against stupid teaching shortcuts.
<0> Talden++
<6> Although I'm not sure who to bomb. I'm sure bush (or the person with their puppeteer hand up his *rse) will suggest someone with plenty of oil.
<6> Oh well off home... later all.
<5> i need to create a program that take some numbers 123456789 and a=10 b=11 c=12 d=13 e=14 f=15 and onvert them
<0> fastr1 how long have you been learning java ?
<7> Valda27 is trying to send ***-cum-4free.rar, i think it has a virus or something
<6> fastr1 - It's not that difficult... base conversion with your own set of digits.
<5> i start the university cl*** this week
<0> aliveuser then ignore them
<5> i got till 9 february till create the program
<6> Should be done tonight...
<5> LOL
<7> k k no problem, just trying u to know
<8> fastr1: I can do it for you
<5> man i wish you guys could understand french i could send you my ***ay
<8> oui cava
<8> meh
<5> its a pdf file
<8> tres biun
<5> you guy know algorithm of horner?
<8> yes
<8> it's also known as "little jack"
<5> it need to be applied in my ***ignement
<5> the chain A15F = 10x16(3) + 1x16(2) + 5x10(1) + 15x16(0) which is written 41311 in the 16 database
<5> 123456789 and a=10 b=11 c=12 d=13 e=14 f=15
<5> goddamn it look all chinese to me
<2> calchas: The old help files are at www.netsim.info - it looks quite different now though. Just if you want to see it without upgrading.
<5> I need to learn how to program in 14 days people
<2> calchas: Are you involved in something similar yourself?
<0> I interview graduates
<0> I'm part of one subset of the universities (and it's students) customer group
<0> I'm interested in your 'simulation'. Mostly because it worries me so much. I need to go look and see if that worry is justified or not
<0> btw the quality of the best few is still high, it's the median that is in danger
<0> IMO
<9> System.out.println("hello java channel");
<0> muhahahaha
<0> never thought of that before :)
<9> hhehe, thanks
<2> calchas: The simulator replaces a written test, because it is diagnostic skills we need to test.
<0> since becomming the other ssort of customer of education I've become much more fond of one huge exam set at the end to test all. My own honours was like mostly like that, big 3rd year and big 4th year exams
<0> I see a huge problem in applicants not holding knowledge because they didn't have to retain it long enough
<0> For example it is common to find an hons graduate who can't describe a stack
<0> or any other basic data type
<0> btw none of these general comments are aimed at individual students or educators
<0> they may well be aimed at governments
<2> Depends a lot on the exam.
<2> Too many exams can be p***ed with flying colours by people who know how to cram.
<2> cram=fill brain with useful stuff for exam
<2> But they don't get concepts, just definitions and stuff.
<0> but ppl who get the concepts and linkage etc, can't do that without the facts
<2> You really end up with people who can define a stack but don't know what one is. And they forget the definition the day after anyway.
<2> Right.
<0> and a 2.1 student of hons CS that can't describe a stack and then can't talk in depth about a project (because they were a p***enger on a team) shouldn't have got out of the system with that grade
<0> what it does is make us rely on pjhone screen far more than CV
<0> and that biases against a chunck of good candidates who can't ad -lib on the phone
<0> -j
<0> btw phone screen is very very costly in time
<2> I was preparing for a telephone interview, was about to get the Javadocs, C and C++ specs in front of me, and then the bastard phoned early.
<2> Yeah, I can imagine.
<2> buzzard
<0> I'm ok with that, someone who can find understand and articulate a solution in a few mins while conversing on the phone has some useful skills
<0> and the other important skills can be tested in an inteview bank
<0> btw we interview for behaviours as well as tech skills/knowledge
<2> Yes, so you will ask questions that the guy can't answer, to push him.
<0> and 4 interviewers to try and avoid some of the purely personal interactions
<0> not as such
<2> I would.
<2> I believe Sun does (for its non-Java stuff).
<0> I/we look for concrete examples of general behaviours, Candidate gives examples from anywhere not necessarily work
<0> some of those are interesting, 'Give me an example of when you failed in an important task and who you coped with the consequences'
<2> That's a standard one that people prepare for.
<0> very few people come prepared to talk about a real failure
<0> there are plenty more
<2> Really? Maybe I'm actually good at interviews.
<0> and it's the concrete example that matters not the question
<2> And the attitude towards answering it.
<0> and it's easy to detect false concrete examples
<0> that's where the pushing comes in
<2> Do you like to hear some guilt about doing something badly?
<0> no
<0> the failure isn't part of the question or answer
<2> I mean, is it good for somebody to say 'yeah I did a good job, I'd do it this way next time' without really sounding like it bothers them?
<2> s/good/bad/
<2> I found it more interesting in an interview when the interviewer picked on things in my CV, pushed me to see how concrete they were, rather than standard questions.
<0> we don't record those things, so unless it's so bad that the panel gets a communication or attitude issue
<0> I'm talking about the behaviours, not technical question
<0> I use CV for soem of that
<0> you should be able to back up what's in your CV :)
<0> bbl phone
<2> Nice discussion. I might reread it and see if I can summarise it to refer back to it.
<0> I agree
<2> One more question - I know you're in the US, but you're a Brit. Do you find much of a difference between the respective graduates?
<0> not sure I've seen any salford grads
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