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Comments:
<0> I think there is something fundamentally wrong with software today
<1> only today ?
<2> do tell
<0> well
<2> it runs?
<1> anything that is available to the m***es does plummet in quality, so why do you make it sound so radical?
<0> nooooo
<0> that's not what's wrong
<0> see
<0> java is pretty cool
<0> and simple
<0> and c# is a dumbifiedversion :)
<2> so
<0> or no
<2> whats wrong with software?
<0> a dumbified alternative
<0> the problem is OOp
<0> OOP
<2> and how does that affect the qualify of software?
<0> so there are these main concepts in OOP
<2> or usability?
<0> most software is OOP , languages are OOP oriented too
<1> the main reason bad software is bad is because of people, it's really that simple
<0> no
<1> yes
<2> oo is the naturaly way we think in
<0> the reason software is bad is because it doesn't do what you expect it to do
<2> the problem is that there are so many mediocer developers
<0> NO
<0> that is the problem OO is NOTthe way we think in
<2> like C0D3J maybe
<0> i am doing my best to be a better developer
<2> sure sure
<0> do yuo really think in OOP?|
<1> good, then drop the philosopher hat
<3> I think in lisp.
<4> C0D3J: the problem with software today is it's incredibly complex, written in languages with issues like C++, written under strict deadlines, and written by the lowest bidder.
<2> yeah, the hat doesn't suit you
<1> i think in pseudocode
<0> look , everybody is a philosopher
<0> just listen to the drunk man for a second
<4> Rob_uknow: it's not always the devels, it's often the managers pushing the devs harder than they should be, forcing corners to be cut.
<3> mike2_: or written while the SVP stands over your shoulder asking why this hasn't launched yet
<4> yes :(
<0> managers **** man , it's a given
<0> but back to the problem
<1> i have met some good managers in my life
<4> managers.
<2> mike2_, true, but the smart developer knows when its time to leave
<0> we DO NO THINK IN OOP
<4> Rob_uknow: doesn't help though, beancounters are everywhere
<2> C0D3J, lose the caps
<4> C0D3J: then propose a solution, don't just keep picking at the scab
<2> managers, the root of all evil
<3> mike2_: you ever use the Fedora archive system?
<0> sorry , I have this sensitive keyboard as I told you
<3> Rob_uknow: I thought that was redmond
<0> yyyyygh, fedora
<4> schitzo: archive system?
<0> I have fedora on my disk actually
<3> mike2_: www.fedora.info
<3> mike2_: looking at solutions for a rather large MAM system
<4> schitzo: I'll take a look
<0> we do not think in OOP , we think in ABSTRACTIONS
<0> we always abstract
<3> as long as it all comes back to boobies and beer I don't really care how I think
<0> boobies are great indeed
<0> my girlfriend has agreat pair of them but I'm bra=gging
<1> see C0D3J, that was not abstract at all
<0> the thing is , OOP is meant to help us abstract things
<0> right?
<0> with polymorphism , and inheritance and stuff
<2> to logically group functionality
<0> BUT
<2> no butts
<0> current trends point towards as[ect oriented programming
<2> aop is so late 2003
<0> and RAILS , and "naked objects" and "domain driven design:"
<0> and Attributes and Annotations
<0> why do people like annotations
<0> ?
<0> ever asked that question?
<1> dunno but try #people
<2> you are mixing paradigma with technologies
<0> why do we need information about information? isn't all information about information?
<2> you have data and information
<0> couldn't we just put the info in Annotations directly in the cl***?
<0> well?
<2> and get even more boiletplate code?
<2> boiler
<0> couldn't we just make a method of Object getAnnotations?
<0> what do annotations give us?
<2> bye
<0> :))
<0> his brain blew a gasket
<0> (did I spell gasket corectly?)
<0> correctly I mean
<0> so ...
<0> does anyone know why he likes or needs annotations?
<0> and even foreach loops
<0> generics too
<0> they all have the same source methinks
<0> (is that even a word methinks?)
<0> c'mon guys are you all sleeping?
<0> LLyric
<0> TechCel
<0> no
<0> teralaser
<0> BOTS
<0> brb , taking a leack
<5> Hmm, I only just got here, and I feel like k/b already...
<3> LLyric: your feelings are leading you correctly
<0> no , don't take the path of the dark side
<0> LLyric , can you see what I wrote before yuo joined?
<0> you
<0> I mean maybe you have a bot or something
<0> or whtever
<0> LLyric
<0> what cpu do you have? duron?
<5> Stop acting like a dork
<5> Why would CPU matter to java?
<0> have you seen this show: welcometothescene?
<0> it doesn't matter , I was just asking
<0> so , is it a duron?
<5> No
<0> ok
<0> back to the reason I'm here tonight:
<0> do you like java 1.5 stuff/
<0> ?
<0> Annotations for example...
<5> I haven't had the changce to use it professionally yet, but I like the look of SOME of the features
<0> ok , but do you like annotations?
<0> or generics
<5> Yeah, I think so, but like I said, I haven't really had a chance to use them yet,
<5> I've written about 100 lines of Java in the last 18 months
<0> but , given the chance , how would you use them?
<6> annotations are good - but often seem to be overused (everyone seems to move anything xml to annotations - which is just as stupid as putting everything in xml to start with)
<0> wow , that little?
<6> generics are ok - but are a half heart abortion
<6> hearted
<5> It doesn't work like that - I'd use them if I had a requirement that called for them
<5> c++ templates are much more powerful
<0> why do yo say that talios/
<6> C0D3J, the simple fact I can ***ign: List foo = new ArrayList<String>();
<6> then go foo.add(new Integer(5));
<6> type erasure makes the whole thing pointless
<6> and the syntax is just messy messy messy
<0> type erasure makes the whole thing backwards compatible :)
<6> C0D3J, only that the cl*** version was changed to break backwards compatibility
<0> yes
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