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Comments:
<0> they had a nice product when it was lisp based
<0> will be interesting to see what Sun do with it
<1> smsie: SBYN always kinda ****ed
<1> Sun's at least charging the right price for it at last
<0> we're spending stupid money for an oracle backup thingy... "mysqldump | gzip -9 > backup.gz", *free*!
<2> has anyone looked at the pastebin i was asked to do
<0> jottinger: the 3.x product was decent IMO (it's what I'm currently transitioning from)
<1> smsie: of course, oracle has real transactions...
<0> linbox: yes, it told us that you need to use the sun java system and not gcj. We mentioned it to you once or twice
<0> jottinger: all I need is to be able to read from the database for every message, and write back to it. mysql is plenty powerful enough for that
<1> however, derby is quite nice IMO
<0> jottinger: besides, despite almost a week of effort, I've yet to be able to persuaade SBYN to give me an updatabale ResultSet in SBYN from the oracle database...
<1> I'm not surprised :)
<0> they want you yo buy the "Oracle e*way"
<0> which costs $LOTS, and replaces about 20 lines of code for what I want to do
<2> smsie: ok thanks I have just downloaded jre5.0 but im still no nearer to understanding the problem
<0> linbox: the problem is that gcj is not a full java implementation
<0> linbox: I don't know how else to put it. What part of that statement are you having trouble understanding?
<1> smsie: "gcj ****s"
<1> smsie: or variants thereof
<0> jottinger: well, yeah. This is a family channel though, is "****s" considered swearing in the US?
<1> no
<2> yes i get that bit but the app i am trying to run is less tham one meg in size
<0> fine, "gcj ****s"
<3> smsie: Probably, if you use it as a binary operator.
<1> linbox: you know, that makes absolutely -0- difference
<0> "it's shucking fite!"
<1> if the app you ran was 1k, you'd still have the same problem
<2> and it is a collection of mostly jar files which are compressed *.cl*** files
<0> linbox: get Sun Java. It will work
<4> linbox: who cares, as long as it works.
<2> ok ok
<4> linbox: how long are you going to keep on whining about your helloworld program not working while almost the entire channel has told you what to do to make it work?
<1> I'm trying to hard to be kind
<0> I wonder if I could get away with using mysql and not telling anyone?
<0> not like any of my manglers can actually understand the code
<5> smsie: ooh, deviant
<0> or even know how to look at it
<1> tmbg: he has low standards
<4> smsie: in theory.. People have gotten away with setting up Samba and telling it was a NT box ;)
<2> it not the hello program at all that i am trying to use
<5> jottinger: me too!
<5> I love mysql
<1> "I wonder if anyone will notice that I am using an ISAM system as a database..."
<1> ewwwwwwww
<5> funny thing is
<6> what is the most used UML modeling tool for Eclipse? it should be able to generate cl***-diagrams from source files
<5> I doubt anyone WOULD notice
<0> I like mysql, it's small, it's fast, it's low overhead, it Just Works, it's easy as hell to backup, it's easy as hell to admin. What's not to like?
<0> and, unlike Oracle, it has autoincrementing fields :)
<0> tmbg: but then we'd be paying money for Oracle support we weren't using
<1> smsie: you mean, like sequences?
<2> thanks all anyway ( execpt the BRIT )
<1> heh
<0> jottinger: yes, like sequences, but automatic. In oracle I have to have a seperate sequence, and then triggers if I want them auto...
<4> which Brit? afaik there are several in here ;)
<1> who wants to bet that linbox will be back with the same problem
<0> jottinger: no bet
<1> smsie: hmm, pretty sure I've seen that in oracle
<7> back
<1> Lion-O: no E any more
<0> jottinger: if there is a way, I've been unable to find it. It's easy to create a sequence, but then you have to either futz with triggers, or you have to create the row with ID=someSequence.nextval
<4> but, but, but... Its the only currency we have over here! <whine> :)
<1> Lion-O: oh, that
<0> I mean, triggers are a nice idea. Control over stuff in an event driven fashion. I just don't want to have to futz with them to create an autoinccrementing field
<1> Thought you were referring to me :)
<4> jottinger: you're just trying to get out of the bet, I'm onto you :P
<3> jottinger is the centre of the known universe
<1> Lion-O: no, it's actually a pretty serious thing for me :)
<0> rickety: he can't be, the known universe can only have one centre
<3> In that case he must be Chuck Norris.
<0> jottinger is Chuck Norris?
<7> everything is the centre of an expanding universe
<3> calchas: By what logic?
<3> An expanding balloon has a centre.
<0> calchas: that only works if the universe is unbounded, no?
<7> no
<7> expanding afaik
<0> you'll have to explain that to me then
<7> and that is in little doubt
<0> the universe can be unbounded and expanding
<3> The logic is that "I read it somewhere".
<7> everything (globally) is moving away from everything else
<3> That's true in the expanding balloon.
<0> what is in little doubt is that everything we are able to observe is (in general) moving away from everything else (on intergalactic scales anwyay). That is NOT the same as proof that the universe is expanding
<8> I'm working with Tomcat, jsf and hibernate. I've mapped all my entities using primatives. Now i have a serializable problem. Hown much change must i make to ge free of this ? in other words : how much of a cl*** must be serializable ?
<9> what, you mean...everyone is moving away from java AND .net at the same time?
<7> didn't claim proof
<0> calchas: I fail to see how (in a bounded universe) everyone can be at the centre
<8> is it enough to just add "implements serializable" , og must all "int"'s be converted to "Integer" and so on ?
<0> I await your explanation with anticipation :)
<3> zackmcr: Java Serialisation deserves expletives.
<7> it started as a sigularity, every path leads from that point
<0> calchas: but that point is not every point
<8> rickety: which means ?
<3> I don't know but if you find out, tell me.
<7> 467 faries can dance on the head of a pin, I admit complete defeat, move on past please
<3> zackmcr: http://www.antwerkz.com/antwerkz/articles/serialization/index.jsp
<0> :)
<3> Maybe the universe isn't expanding at all, but light decelerates.
<0> would be an interesting universe :)
<3> It's hardly dull.
<3> Predict the movement of 3 bodies under the influence of gravity in relation to each other, accurately, without iteration.
<0> except in very sepcial cases, you can't
<0> it's chaotic
<0> POincare showed that a hundred years or so ago
<3> smsie: Yes. The universe is interesting.
<7> time to put nose to grind stone
<7> bye
<4> right.. Well, thanks to smsie I also took a closer look into getting rid of kaffe and gij on my box and finally re-discovered 'dh_make' and 'dpkg -b' ;)
<3> Lion-O: Now file a bug against the relevant package to stop Debian from installing non-Java things and pretending they're Java.
<3> Specifically, non-Java packages should not install a 'java' executable, at least without notifying the user.
<4> rickety: hmm, sometimes I really feel like doing that but heck.. I'm not always in the mood for zealotism :/
<9> i have a title for that already: "Feature Request: Un**** debian with regards to Java"
<3> It's not zealotism. Lots of people make the mistake you do, ***uming that if you type 'java' and it doesn't say "command not found", then you must have Java installed.
<9> or "Stop raping the end users"
<3> It's called eliminating a systematic mistake, which should be the goal of any decent engineer.
<4> Its the same deal with (IMO ofcourse) opensource.. "If it doesn't comply with opensource.org's statement it cannot be called open source". And if that is the case its likely not to find its way into Debian ("non free"). But I think that this "enforcing freedom" is also displaying a dark side.
<9> this is about anti-zealotism. the zealotism consists of debian dumb***es putting something under the label "java" on their stupid distro.
<9> rickety: you put it so much more nicely.
<3> They're mainly doing that because somebody tells them to.
<9> Lion-O: this is about real life problems...
<4> Clackwell: well, in a way it boils down to the same causes.
<9> of course it is obvious that linux users are more forgiving for this kind of **** up in their linux operating system, but...
<3> Linux distros are increasingly aiming at non-technical people.
<9> it would be nice for them to realize this by themselves and fixing it.
<3> So that 'forgiving' nature is already disappearing.
<3> Forgiveness for your sins is being replaced with "wtf are sins?"
<9> they should call the executables "not-java" and "not-java" :)
<3> Clackwell: And "not-java" and some other similar things.
<9> or how about "GNOJ - GNU's Not Java"
<4> hehehe
<4> Clackwell: my main gripe in all this is simple.. You have a product providing sources with are not fully free and it cannot be called 'opensource' and included in several distributions ("not real opensource"). But in that same time you can install something else, pretend it is the same and all is well. IMO thats holding double standards.
<9> Lion-O: good point
<9> i call that ****wittism.
<4> I tend to agree.
<9> it's less insightful or witty, but provides more satisfaction when writing it.
<4> lol
<3> Lion-O: Pretending that something is something else is simply dishonest.
<4> rickety: and that is exactly why I find this annoying. I'd have more respect for them not including Java at all because of the licenses than what they're doing now.
<4> anyway.. Time to prepare dinner, my turn to cook today <sigh>
<3> Get a better gf.
<10> Nokia modems support Java \m/
<10> erm.. Mobiles
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