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Comments:
<0> Floyd, my head isn't in the sand, and you haven't tried anything.
<0> Asriel has.
<1> but you just told me "[23:59] <0> A scientific fact remains true whether 99% of scientists believe it or 1% of scientists believe it"
<0> Don't take credit for his strenuous arguments, floyd.
<0> However poor they may be, at least he's trying.
<1> So there must be some definition of "scientific fact" in your head, which I'm trying to get at
<2> well I tried to get my word in
<0> No you didn't.
<2> and help you to no avail
<0> No, you didn't.
<2> ok youre right I didn't say anything
<0> And I don'tneed help.
<0> I could say you do, but that would be stupid of me
<2> what that I need help?
<0> Asriel, you have a very perverse confusion of "fact", "certain", and "perfect".
<1> That's why I'm trying to find out what you mean
<1> "[23:59] <0> A scientific fact remains true whether 99% of scientists believe it or 1% of scientists believe it"
<2> well I tried at least to get a word in between you two
<1> what's a scientific fact?
<1> That can be true when only 1% of scientists believe it?
<0> Scientific certainty is generally considered as something with incredibly high odds of according with reality.
<1> even when 99% of scientists disagree?
<0> If the only way you can be wrong is if an invisible puppet is pulling the string, then you're right.
<0> What the hell
<2> you guys rape the world
<0> Agree, disagree, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE, ASRIEL.
<0> I don't know how many times I have to explain this.
<0> SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS HAS BEEN, IS, AND WILL BE WRONG.
<2> lol got ya back for the "you need help" thing
<2> hahah you guys rape the world lol
<3> maybe that's what he doesn't agree with
<0> Of course he doesn't agree with it.
<1> JBlitzen - That's your quote
<0> Which is why I originally called it socialism.
<1> "[23:59] <0> A scientific fact remains true whether 99% of scientists believe it or 1% of scientists believe it"
<0> Oh, nice, Asriel, you just pasted a quote of mine that agrees perfectly what what I just typed.
<0> I'm glad you did that, otherwise I might have gone through life thinking something incorrect.
<1> So your definition of scientific fact is the abstract true floating in the air that we're trying to get at?
<0> The abstract true?
<1> which is fair enough
<1> er, abstract truth
<1> i.e. "The real answer"
<0> No, that's not my definition of fact.
<0> That's YOUR'S.
<3> is this the huge debate between you and peterhu still going on?
<0> YOU have been the one confusing perfection with fact.
<1> So give you your defintion of scientific fact
<3> from... TWO days ago?
<0> I'm not discussing this any more with you, Asriel, you can't keep your own position straight.
<0> It's a waste of time for me.
<1> Ah yes. The standard "I can't win, I back out" position
<0> Perfection and certainty have no place in science.
<1> because I've found the kink in your logic :)
<0> Kink in my logic?
<0> Uh, because you don't have a ****ing clue what science is or how it works?
<1> you claim scientific fact remains scentific fact even if 99% of scientists disagree with it
<1> But you won't give me any definition of scientific fact that makes that true
<0> And because you're a european communist who thinks that reality is dictated by human beings instead of vice versa?
<4> yes, what about it?
<0> I'm sorry you're a ****ing communist, Asriel.
<0> But that's not a kink in my logic.
<1> the only one I've had so far si "When when people agree with it", to paraphrase
<0> It's a kink in your humanity.
<3> ugh
<0> And I don't feel like playing Freud with you.
<0> So I'm walking away from this discussion.
<1> Which rather contradicts your "99% of scientists disagree with it and it's still true" statement
<4> then stop the personal attacks
<0> Excuse me, vawjr, you don't get to say that.
<0> So stop attacking me personally.
<4> why not?
<0> If you have a problem with my claims, address them.
<4> I didn't attack you, I told you to modify your behavior
<1> well, I can prove I'm not a communist, if that's what you want
<4> calling Asriel names doesn't help
<1> I don't have any political affilations at all. I voted Libral Democrat at the last general election, but I wouldn't vote for them again
<0> Don't make your sniveling ad hominem arguments that because I'm rude to someone who's rude to me, that that somehow undermines the position I've very generously laid out for him for the last hour, vawjr.
<0> Be a little more goddamned appreciative of the attention I paid to him, vawjr.
<1> oh yes, I'm truely blessed by your attention
<0> Stop trying to score cheap points with the teens.
<4> making false statements about someone isn't reasonable
<0> Well, I haven't made any, so when I do, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
<1> JB - Then you'll present me with the evidence that I'm a communist?
<4> your ***ertion that he's a communist is neither relevant nor likely true
<0> I think it's very true, and very relevant.
<1> cause, you know, I should probably get some club dues or something
<0> For the reasons I've already explained.
<0> Communism is the height of human narcissism.
<4> what YOU THINK has no bearing on reality
<1> and I bet I've missed a hell of a lot of meetings
<0> Communism isn't a club, Asriel, although nice job demonstrating your lack of knowledge.
<4> even if 99% of the people agree with you
<0> vawjr, nobody here agrees with me.
<0> 0%.
<1> well, it's a political party. At least in this country
<1> noone votes for them
<0> If you think it's 99%, vawjr, go ahead and show them to me.
<0> I'd sure love to meet them.
<0> It seems that the 99% side is your's, vawjr, so it's very interesting that you'd try and use it against ME.
<1> JBlitzen - You know, some people might take 0% agreement out of 72 people as some sign that they were...wrong
<3> ...wtf?
<4> you're the one that's holding as true that Asriel is communist
<0> Yes, Asriel, I'll let Colombus know.
<4> I ***ert it's false, that you _know_ it's false
<0> I don't even think it's false.
<0> In fact, I have no reason to believe it's not true, and many reasons to believe it's true.
<0> He's subjugating science to human perceived needs.
<0> I.e., desires.
<4> your brain clearly works differently than mine
<0> Yes, it apparently works better at this.
<4> "this"??
<0> But I don't count that against you, I've studied these things quite in depth.
<0> I could explain why I think he's a communist to you, but you don't want to hear it.
<4> perhaps you and he have different definitions
<0> All you want to hear is that you get credit for scoring some cheap personal point against me.
<0> So go ahead and wait for the teenagers here to clap and let me go have supper.
<4> and never come back
<1> you're welcome to leave at any time
<0> Aww, isn't that nice of you.
<1> Yes, I'm like that
<0> Honestly, Asriel, I admire your willingness to stand by your position.
<0> Or, at least, stand at all.
<0> That I think you're wrong doesn't undermine that.
<0> I wouldn't talk to you if I didn't respect you that much.
<1> Same to you. You're certainly forthright in your opinion
<1> I'd download those papers for you, if I had more time tonight (can get them from the university network)
<0> Here's a link I sent to my father a few minutes ago
<0> It's in no way exhaustive or even representative
<0> And it's really just an editorial with a few minor references
<0> But it might help you realize that scientific consensus is a term that can ONLY be misused.
<0> http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm
<1> I've read that one
<1> The main quoted person is the Exxon-Mobile employee
<4> I posted that link and it started this fooforah
<1> Which, I'm sorry, in my opinion disqualifies him from comment
<3> it pains me to say because that's where I live but.. you're taking that from canadafreepress? CANADAfreepress?
<1> You can't unbiasly quote on a topic that your employer has a strong position on
<1> *Especially* if you don't declare your affiliation
<0> "Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia"
<0> That's an Exxon Mobile employee?
<1> Yup
<1> well. they "sponser" him
<1> one second
<1> (he also doesn't publish research)
<0> "Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson"
<1> http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=1134
<0> Dr. Boris Winterhalter,
<1> http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=1163
<1> now, Dr. Boris Winterhalter, they've not funded
<1> at least, it's not documented
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