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Comments:
<0> There's no reason to start with C if you can start with C++.
<0> C++ can do everything that C can do, and do it better.
<0> More safely and efficiently.
<1> unless you're doing some embedded systems stuff and there's only C compilers available ;P
<0> Which is almost never the case these days.
<0> (Ask vawjr about that)
<2> yeah its all java powered
<3> its irrelevant what languages and in what order you learn imo
<4> but it's easier to learn only C first, and then advance
<0> Twister2: It's very relevant.
<0> Especially w/r/t C and C++.
<0> You'll learn bad habits in C that you have to unlearn in C++.
<1> vawjr does embedded sys?
<5> Cloud99, the linker generates that file. it lists the dependencies for native SxS libraries such as the CRT, which are not found on the search path on Windows XP (they're installed into a versionable directory, C:\Windows\WinSxS)
<4> :)
<0> That's why we recommend Accelerated C++ as a tutorial. It teaches C++ without the C baggage.
<0> You start with the standard library on page 1.
<3> no, you just need to learn how to use the tools of each language to the best ability. C and C++ are no exception
<0> You're wrong.
<5> the manifest tool takes that information and embeds a manifest in the executable. when the executable is loaded, the manifest is read and the libraries are resolved without searching a path
<0> There is no reason to start with C.
<3> people just tend to bring C into C++ for no reason
<4> well i did
<0> Exactly.
<0> Read, Twister2
<4> i got an advice to learn c first
<4> and i did
<5> it is an attempt, somewhat convoluted, to solve the DLL Hell problem faced by the CRT and MFC libraries
<0> dreemer: Bad advice. From whom did you get that?
<4> from some programmers on the net
<3> I would not tell anyone to learn C first, but I would not say the person is screwed because they did.
<4> i don't know them
<0> Besides, if you learn C++ completely, you'll *know* C.
<6> cool thanks SOlamente
<6> >:D I'm back baby!
<4> and why the hell does someone learn c then
<4> ok i get it
<3> C is needed for legacy system maintenance in many cases
<3> and to decipher legacy code in general
<0> Yes.
<0> See my previous statement.
<7> well
<2> peterhu : Sounds like an overkill for just one simple dll
<8> Solamente learning C++ doesn't make you know C
<7> also c++ is build on top so
<0> jebo: Yes, it does.
<7> you can't really get away from C persay
<0> C is almost a perfect subset of C++, with a handful of differences.
<3> c++ is far superior for the choice of which to learn first. I would agree.
<8> no it doesn't. first you don't know what C is, and what isn't
<0> The C standard library is part of the C++ standard, by inclusion.
<0> The Stroustrup C++ reference spends some time on what is from C, and what isn't.
<0> As does the standard document, ISO 14882
<0> So, my statement stands. If you learn C++ *completely*, you know C.
<8> Solamente how, when you don't know what is valid in C and what isn't?
<0> As Stroustrup is fond of pointing out, every program in K&R is a C++ program.
<0> I just *told* you.
<8> because K&R was written when there were no standard C89 compilers available
<3> well, you will not know memory allocation and it takes a while to learn how to imitate objects and such
<1> not every C program is a valid C++ program
<4> c++ is just extended c, so you must know c if you know c++
<1> I can think of a simple example
<8> they used C++ compiler to compile their programs
<0> K&R v2, to be precise.
<9> exactly
<1> valid C, but not valid C++ => int main() { int this = 0; return 0; }
<0> What part of completely are you people not getting?
<0> And these differences are covered in the reference and the standard, because they have to be.
<9> the one in the left side
<8> Solamente someone who has only read Stroustrup will be a bad C programmer at best, and at worst he won't even know how to write a valid C program
<4> the first two letters, that is
<3> I was pretty sure it was NOT a subset by the definition of subset.
<0> jebo: You are completely wrong on that point. I don't know how else to put it.
<8> Solamente prove it
<3> jebo, most people that read only one document will be poor at the topic at hand.
<0> I've already told you that the reference and the standard cover the differences (explicitly).
<8> Twister2 and they will be especially bad at topic NOT at hand
<3> I needed some more adjectives in that sentence to make a stronger point, but you get the idea.
<0> If a C++ coder doesn't know those differences, he hasn't been diligent.
<0> In any case, there is no reason to start with C. Even if I did concede your argument (which I don't), a developer is better off starting with C++.
<8> unless he wants to program in C
<3> I concur. My only additon is that you are not hampered if you happened to learn C first.
<4> Solamente: i see u r an experienced programmer, so i can rely on you. For to learn c and c++, you gotta be under linux, right???
<0> And wanting to code in C with C++ available is another set of errors in itself.
<3> no.
<0> Which goes back to *why* I recommend C++ over C.
<0> dreemer: Absolutely not.
<0> C and C++ are both available on nearly any system.
<8> C is used a lot more than C++ in embedded and system programming
<4> and why do all c programmers first recommend that you have linux or UNIX
<4> ???
<0> You'll be hard pressed to find a platform without a port of a standard C++ compiler, with library.
<0> GCC runs just as well on Win32 as it does on Linux or Solaris or VAX or NetBSD.
<4> and linux is an open-source and that can help a lot, i think
<3> all is one helluva strong word dreemer. I suggest you use it less frequently, and only if it is applicable ;)
<0> No, no real relevance.
<3> well, in linux you have access to lots of pre-compiled code that you normally would not be downloading. But, thats not really relevant either.
<0> Basically, pick an OS you're comfortable with and you find interesting.
<4> so you just recommend that i learn c++, no matter what os i have
<4> and dump c
<0> Then get whatever standard (and I can't stress the word "standard" enough) C++ compiler is available.
<0> Get a good editor/IDO.
<0> IDE.
<0> You're set.
<0> And then, get the book "Accelerated C++" by Koenig & Moo
<4> oh i won't
<0> That's the best tutorial I've found for the language.
<4> no i won't :)
<4> you don't wanna know where i live
<0> I don't particularly care.
<0> My answers aren't locale-specific.
<4> well, in my country, books aren't available for...uh...
<4> anyone
<3> That book is good, but you will need a supplement once you get past the begginner level imo.
<0> Does UPS or FedEx know how to find your country?
<4> i just get tutorials from web
<3> tutorials form the web are not nearly as good as a book
<4> i know
<0> Sadly, all the web tutorials I've ever reviewed **** to some degree. There's only one I can recommend.
<4> ooh ooh
<4> and that is...
<0> http://cplus.about.com/od/beginnerctutorial/l/blcplustut.htm
<0> Get a good ad-blocking plug-in for your browser.
<0> I use Firefox and adblock.
<0> But with those, it's fairly tolerable.
<0> The content's not bad in that tutorial. Not nearly as good as the book, though.
<4> oh..
<0> I'd write a tutorial myself, but it would just end up being a rip-off of Accelerated C++ and I'd get sued.
<4> :)
<0> It's that good.
<4> the tutorial you gave me..is just the one i had
<4> :)
<4> and i started learning c from john kopp's tutorial
<4> on about.com
<4> r u sure bout this?
<0> About what?
<3> after you read Accelerated C++, you will want to get a book that teaches best practices and common pit-falls.
<4> about the tutorial
<0> The fact that I recommend that one should tell you how much the other ones ****.
<4> :)
<4> ok then
<0> Twister2: That's why the Meyers books are recommended after AC++ on our books list.
<0> http://www.rudbek.com/books.html
<4> 'cause, from the c tutorial, i got so confused, that i don't even know what memory allocation is for, duh
<3> yeah, that book collection is awsome.
<0> You really ought to do anything you can to get the book I recommended.
<3> I am slowly purchasing all of em myself.
<0> Someone ships to whereever you are.
<3> Just ordered Jsuitus (sp)
<10> You ordered Jesuits?
<3> ya
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