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Comments:
<0> saga of ryzom supposedly has some sort of engine open source
<0> and then there's that other platform that's recently gotten press
<0> don't recall the name
<0> and today I confirmed with some certainty to myself that programmers out of Full Sail are garbage
<1> Heh
<0> at least 4 game dev studios have agreed with my opinion that it's totally bogus, heh
<0> me on a hunch, them interacting with the grads
<1> What do they do?
<0> they don't hire them ;)
<2> let say a person would like to study game development and too cheapskate to go to college... what should that person do?
<1> No, I mean, what do they do?
<0> you mean, full sail?
<1> Geek, there really isn't much money in game development
<1> Yeah, rdragon
<0> they're a "digital arts college"
<1> Geek, there are an awful lot of "programmers" in the field and not much demand
<1> Oh, god, one of those
<0> they put you through some 'extreme' program, and at the end, you're a game programmer
<1> I feel terrible whenever I see an ad for those on TV
<1> What an awful scam
<0> yeah, sort of like those, but they're a lot bigger
<0> but same deal
<2> found this link about full sail -> http://www.gamedev.net/reference/business/features/fullsailfailure/
<0> they have other things besides programming - apparently their sound production program is alright
<0> i live just down the road from full sail, heh
<0> but everyone that's interviewed me and asked about it has said they've never hired someone from full sail, and don't have respect for people touting it as a background
<0> digipen is similar, but they're a real school and -are- well respected
<0> they're in WA I think
<1> Geek, look
<1> There's no substitute for college
<0> yeah, go to college
<1> And you've got to make decisions at this stage in your life that benefit you in the future
<1> Not just set you up to be some monkey in the basement of EA
<0> don't work at EA, either ;)
<1> Yeah, how's that workin' out ;)
<0> thankfully they haven't gotten my name yet
<2> I read about EA and their staff policy
<1> You still at magic land there
<0> ya
<0> next week I start in-person interviews
<1> nod
<0> got 3 lined up so far
<2> rdragon you are interviewing people right?
<0> no
<0> i'm being interviewed
<2> I wish you the best
<0> thanks
<0> heh this guy did nail it on the head: "Upon graduation, at best, I would be just a junior "hack" programmer, not a professional ready to take on a competitive job market."
<1> Indeed
<1> See that, GeekNoobness?
<2> that support my argument against going to college
<0> no it doesn't
<0> full sail isn't a college
<2> it is just waste of time
<2> ok then... higher learning institution
<1> Not really
<0> that's certainly not full sail either
<0> full sail is a private for-profit organization that's out to get your money
<0> that's all
<0> they just have buzz words like 'game industry' and junk
<2> my opinion is that those who wnt to learn game development ... can do that by using GOOGLE
<1> Can't even learn to program that way
<0> yeah, that's no good either GeekNoobness
<2> such person need to be really ... how to say ... take their own initiaitve
<0> *shrug* the best way to learn game programming is to get a job as a game programmer ;)
<2> :P if that is not true then... i am really screwed
<0> but to do that, you need to be a solid programmer
<0> *shrug* what do you -really- want to do in life?
<2> I really want to program games...
<0> then do it
<0> read books, become a solid programmer
<2> ok.. I'm trying to become solid programmer first
<0> it could take a few years
<0> and even then, there's lots to learn
<1> How old are you, GeekNoobness?
<2> 20 something
<1> How old are you, GeekNoobness?
<2> it is hard to do everything... but i guess if I learn to use tools like Crystall Space... it might be good to begin things
<0> specialize in something
<1> What do you do for a living currently, GeekNoobness?
<2> programmer, used to be VB now C# ... just starting C++
<1> Do you actually do that for a living or do you just want to
<0> you work as a programmer?
<2> yes
<1> Well
<1> You're responsible for yourself, then
<1> The "game programming blows" lecture is what we use on kids
<2> :D I'll take your advise regarding the cons of being game programmer
<3> hm you work as a programmer with not college history or anything like that?
<2> comeon, I'm just kidding about people should not going to college
<0> http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/01/biter.sentenced.ap/index.html
<2> but IMHO nowadays education is overrated
<0> not really
<3> I don't think it is.
<0> several people questioned me when they didn't see I had a degree
<0> get a degree.
<1> Yeah
<1> The reality is, if you can't get a degree, nobody's going to trust you with a salary and job responsibilities
<1> Sure, there are some exceptions
<1> But it's a constant struggle against a strong current
<1> And most people drown
<0> yeah
<0> even if you do land a first job... it may come back to haunt you on your 2nd or 3rd
<1> Right
<0> in fact, it'll probably haunt you for the rest of your life
<0> in terms of peer respect
<0> don't be 'that guy' ;)
<1> And god forbid you want to move up into management positions where the money starts
<2> I do agree with that
<2> except on the management part
<2> :P Tech for life
<0> management doesn't care how good you can code
<1> Code monkey's a code monkey
<0> eh, don't limit yourself so early
<1> You can always trade for a cheaper model
<2> Ok then... so I work another 5 years as programmer and then hopefully by then i will look old and experience enough to become manager
<1> Doesn't work like that
<1> I've met plenty of older programmers
<0> you don't wanna manage Stupid Software, Inc. either
<2> or that ... become an old programmer
<4> everybody can't move into management
<4> or maybe they can, and that explains some companies
<1> The idiots are better explained by, they had degrees.
<1> And the more qualified guys didn't
<2> if I can help it I wouldnt want to be programming for sallary (even as manager) five years from now
<1> So, think about that when contemplating college
<1> The business world's reluctance to promote non-degree holders is directly proportional to the percentage of idiots in management positions
<4> someone once explained it to me thusly: without a degree the interviewer is taking a chance and if you fail it's their fault, but with a degree, if you fail it's your fault and they did their job -- "well, he had a degree" -- so who are they going to be more willing to hire?
<1> Well, Geek, better to figure that out now than later
<2> Programming for fun is good ... progamming for money ****s
<1> What would you like to do instead?
<0> until you need money... then you wish your programming job paid more
<2> all this discussion put thinks into perspective
<1> Ally Sheedy's pretty
<4> now that's prespective I like
<0> shes old
<2> :D anything that can gimme lot of money beside robing banks?
<0> i guess your age
<0> ;p
<0> yeah, management
<0> *shrug*
<5> which is like stealing money :P
<0> but it's legal ;)
<0> usually
<5> quite so
<4> robbing a bank is overrated, rob drug dealers, they won't report you and if you're smart you'll pick one that can't track you across the country :P
<5> Kniht: it helps to kill them afterwards :)
<0> heh
<0> bleh, gotta restart
<1> Everybody thinks they want to make money
<1> A lot of people just want to receive money
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