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Comments:
<0> the question is always, how wrong?
<1> So, in the absense of something better, it's the best explaination we have. And we can make predictions from it, that turn out to be accurate
<1> Making it even more than just a best guess, it turns out to be a good tool as well
<0> Newton's law of gravitation worked great
<0> for a very long time
<0> it puts sattelites in orbit
<2> But people use evolution to attack religion. And thats just like that geography teacher.
<0> and got us to the moon
<1> No, we don't. Science doesn't care about religion
<3> i fail to see how you could use evolution to attack religion
<1> Religion just likes attacking anything that forces them to think about their world view
<2> Asriel` but scientists do.
<1> All the recent "anti-evolution" stuff originated with the religious folk
<3> as evolution has no ability to disprove any supernatural claims
<2> Asriel` christanity probably. Not true for other religions.
<1> How? Because we theorise, test, attempt to discover?
<0> Anyway, IRR^, the only thing important here is a question of education
<0> you may dislike math
<0> but, colleges and universities will expect you to know it
<1> In general, most scientists are happy to let people believe what they want to believe. Science just provides information
<0> if you want to major in biology
<0> you better be ready to understand evolution
<0> like it or not
<3> and i would wager a large number of scientists are relgious people
<0> believe it or not
<0> no one cares
<0> the point of HS education is to get you prepared for college.
<3> discovering how nature works is to discover god's work
<2> Most of them I know are not religious.
<4> hey isn't there already a #politics?
<2> Not the biologist anyway...
<2> A lot of mathematiciens and astro physicists probably.
<1> but then, mathematics/computers aren't really a "science" in the traditional sense
<1> when I do something, I can often prove beyond all doubt it works
<0> and, besides, evolution is closer to fact than theory
<3> the controversy of late was not about evolution by any means
<3> it was whether or not intelligent design was science
<0> maybe not the part about humans evolving from apes
<0> but, species do change with time
<2> No one denies the existence of the golden ratio. Yet they deny the element of design in nature.
<0> that is proven
<2> Noidea what is the proof?
<0> we do it in labs
<0> we can make it happen
<3> failure to understand things does not warrant a theory of the supernatural
<0> it has been observed.
<2> What experiments? Two works had *** before and now they can't?
<0> first hand
<2> works/worms*
<0> we evolve fruit flys all the time
<4> wtf is this #religion? who CARES? there may or may not be a big man int he sky with a beard who gives a **** about us.. SO WHAT?
<2> You don't evolve them. You engineer them genetically.
<4> jayzus
<1> Uckfae, this happens whenever you get smart/semi-smart people together
<4> i would say semi-smart
<0> No, IRR
<3> smart = peter
<4> truly smart people know not to discuss such matters
<3> unsmart = JBlitzen
<1> So get used to it if you hang out in science channels :)
<4> haha
<0> we can take a bacteria
<0> and change its environment
<4> bacterium
<4> bacteria is plural
<0> most will die, some will survive, and thrive
<4> take some bacteria
<0> yeah, sorry
<1> in fact, we discuss more politics in here than programming recently
<4> take a bacterium
<0> some bacteria
<2> Bacteria have their metabolism open to dna exchange etc.
<3> discussing C++ is stupid when everyone already knows it reasonably well
<4> haha
<4> ok good point
<2> Not true for multi cellulars, or maybe other uni cellulars.
<4> irr are you trying to disprove evolution using science?
<0> again, we do the same thing with fruit flies
<2> Noidea give me a reference to the experiment. I don't know of it.
<2> Maybe they are evolving fruit flies.
<0> google it.
<2> ok...
<4> OMFG what is it with evolution disbelievers growing balls lately? goes to show you the power of the media in making idiots think they are smart,..
<4> unless you are a scientist and you have a damned good way to explain it as untrue, SHUT THE HELL UP about evolution
<1> natural cycle. people live in times of doubt at the moment
<4> bah, people live in times of idiocy
<1> so they turn back to something "certain" (i.e. religion) and promptly attack anything that threatens it
<4> how is religion MORE certain than science?
<4> that's not the explanation
<3> i really don't get the need of some people to say "look, we don't have a working theory for what we know has to have happened...therefore, the only logical explanation is that there is a creator god and the will of this creature is the cause of the phenomenon". why can't people resign themselves simply to "we don't know (yet or may never)"
<1> because everyone can understand religion, it only requires "belief"
<1> science is hard
<1> and gives you answers you don't always like, or more questions than you can cope with
<4> yeah science requires critical thinking and usually some ability to look at graphs and do at least some math
<4> a lot easier to listen to some dude tell you about a man in the sky who doesn't want you to eat bacon on friday
<1> religion that boils down to "Follow these rules => Go to heaven" is great for people. They have instructions
<1> Science doesn't provide instructions
<3> definitely the opiate of the m***es
<4> yup i agree
<2> "geneticists discovered that a combination of three mutations in a single gene produces flies in which the balancers develop into normal-looking wings."
<2> "But the extra wings are not new structures, only duplications of existing ones. Furthermore, the extra wings lack muscles and are therefore worse than useless."
<4> i am not saying religion is wrong, i am just saying i don't get why the religious nuts can't heed the advice of their own avatar and just live and let live.. why they have to be such ****s about the whole thing.
<4> they are the ultimate hippocrites
<1> well, you get loonies in any group
<4> like this IRR dude thikning his ideas about evolution will trump all of science
<4> yeah
<4> you do
<1> they've just got the bullhorn at the moment
<4> haha yup
<4> unfortunately they do
<0> lunch time
<1> give it a little while, it'll quiet down
<4> k
<3> i for one wouldn't respect or worship any creature that created existence, gave us free will, and then created an afterlife in which you had to have followed some rules to gain access to. that sounds an awful lot like a science experiment to me. or at the very least, the sadistic game of some creature in desperate need of affection.
<2> Uckfae evolution isn't all of science...
<2> And its just a 150 yr phenomenon, revised many many many times.
<2> Its not a stable theory even.
<4> no theory is stable
<4> our understanding of things changes
<3> that's what we call science
<2> It has no scientifique credibility by scientific standards.
<2> Well did relativity change over the last 90 years?
<3> it changed dramatically of recent
<1> Hell yes
<2> Did Newtonian physics change for 400 years?
<1> virtually every theory is updated constantly
<3> that's *science*
<2> And those are theories.
<1> Every theory is under debate, attack, revision
<1> And all of science is theory
<3> i suggest you read kuhn's scientific revolutions, a good book
<2> Whereas evolution is not defended as a theory, but as an instrument to dispel world religions.
<1> khans scientific revolutions? We don't need books about sheep, thanks
<1> IRR - What evidence do you offer for that?
<1> Even if that were the purpose, it would be entirely pointless. I've quite happily reconciled evolution with my christian beliefs
<3> no wait, that title was hacking, kuhn's was "the structure of scientific revolusions"
<3> i still have my philosophy of science courses
<3> i figured it was the only philosophy discipline i wouldn't go insane from taking
<1> Once you accept that the bible is allegorical, you can easily believe that evolution is Gods mechanism for creating life
<1> It's mainly the biblical literalists that are the problem
<1> People who ignore the inherent contraditions in the bible itself
<3> agreed. the only problem religious people could have with evolution is that it goes against the timelime estabolished in the bible.
<3> that's about it
<3> and that's not the only theory that does so.
<3> for some reason, it gets the most attention
<3> established
<3> personally, i doubt humans from 2000-4000 years ago are a reliable source of information on the nature of the universe
<1> Your argument that Evolution was created to destroy religion is just patently ridiculous; Darwin was a theist
<3> i wonder at what point in the development of a species does inventing gods become a requirement for dealing with existence and intellect
<3> as i'm sure there were belief systems in place long before civilization reared it's head
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