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Comments:
<0> bewest: there's the whole about:config thing same as FF has
<1> Zeros, i agree
<0> although Opera redirects it
<2> WebDragon, yeah, its considerably better, not enough to get me to use it as my main browser, but I can see that they're trying
<3> you load all these extensions up in FF and you feel like you have a debug-suite not a browser
<0> majd: that's what skins and themes are for
<1> majdkinda ugly on a mac
<1> majdit's very Panther'ish
<1> opera has themes?
<0> O_O
<4> majd: ... eh. Yes. Rather good ones too.
<5> I also love it how they include a useless IRC client.. and news reader etc.. even though I'll never use it. At least in FF if you absolutely must, you can build it yourself
<1> no ****
<0> sipher: no wonder people wrote chatzilla for Firefox
<0> cus they thought it was missing
<6> weird
<0> Opera includes it and STILL is smaller and faster than Firefox
<4> sipher: the operative word is "I".
<5> WebDragon: It's not included by default is it?
<4> Luckily.
<0> let alone the whole mozilla suite
<0> sipher: not with FF no
<0> you have to download the extension
<0> and update it regularly
<6> hmmm? firefox has sensible upgrades now
<6> I quite like it actually
<5> The whole point is Firefox leaves everything out by default.. ***uming you don't want it.. Opera includes a bunch of bloat that only some people want simply because without including it there's no way for users to persorm those tasks
<0> however I'll take speed + compliance, over "aesthetic sensibilities with the UI" any day
<5> perform*
<6> the last opera upgrade I did was a bit quirky
<6> it asked me to close the browser
<6> so I did
<0> sipher: how can you call it bloat when it comes in SMALLER than firefox?
<6> it finished upgrading
<0> firefox WITHOUT all the bells and whistles is MORE bloated than Opera and does LESS
<6> and then it restarted and started the upgrade process again (because of a tab with the upgrade page)
<0> I still can't figure out how they did that
<4> WebDragon: the trick, I think, is that ... aesthetics is subjective ;)
<6> WebDragon: how did they do it?!
<0> Windrose: ;)
<0> bewest: I wish I knew :)
<5> WebDragon: Anything I don't want that I'm forced to download with something I do want I consider bloat. Might as well be spyware
<4> sipher: so why do you use Opera?
<5> I don't
<0> I just find the reasons mentioned so far to be somewhat spurious
<5> but I would if it had an extension system and all the crap that ships with it now was removed and made into extensions
<1> Safari is beautiful
<4> sipher: EXACTLY!
<2> WebDragon, Firefox is more than just a browser though (even more than Opera), its whole XUL runtime environment
<4> sipher: so why the bitching?
<0> Zeros: but how often do I use any of that?
<6> Windrose: because he was answering my questions
<1> safari is real compliant, p***es the acid2 test just like opera, but it doesn't have cool extensions
<2> not saying thats a good thing, just pointing it out WebDragon :p
<6> Windrose: it only recently became bitching... I started it with a series of questions
<6> Windrose: now that I know sipher's answers I think we can lay it to rest :-)
<1> Zeros, i use firefox as my css development enviornment
<0> I like FF's webdeveloper plugin
<6> anyone ever use Visual Studio 2005 and while debugging the line numbers are like 30 lines off?
<3> and firebug
<0> and that's the only reason I still use it occasionally when I really DO need to check something under the hood
<5> That's why I'm bitching.. because of cocky "I'm better than thou.. my browser kicks your browsers ***" ****ing bull****
<2> majd, I usually use Safari for development, or rather the nightly with Element Inspector :)
<2> there's a web developer plugin for Safari too
<0> I've heard about that element inspector
<0> sounds nifty
<2> mmhm
<5> Zeros: How's it different from FF's DOM Inspector?
<5> I'm ust wondering if it's worth using VNC to check it out
<5> since my browsercam acct. expires soon
<7> i am building a site with oscommerce, i added a dynamic menu for it with is based on jcssmenu , i wantto add links that are not generatedby the categories - ie. links to pages i added, but i dont know how to do it, has any one ever worked with the two ? and maybe can help ?
<1> Zeros, does it let you develop css on the fly?
<2> sipher, well personally I find the UI more elegant, http://webkit.org/blog/?p=41 I'm not sure what the exact differences are, you'd have to check yourself
<1> that's the only real reason i still use FF
<2> majd, nope, its for inspection, not runtime changes. You can do that quite nicely with Sunrise browser though
<2> Sunrise lets you modify the HTML source in the sourceview and see the changes in real time
<1> wow
<1> that looks awsome
<1> thanks
<8> Zeros: zomg this works great
<8> Zeros: mod_proxy_balancer + mognrel
<8> ftw
<6> anyone play with platypus + greasemonkey?
<6> puts the browser in design mode
<6> which lets you WYSIWG edit things
<6> then saves your changes as a GM script
<6> the guy calls it "active" browsing
<2> yeah I've used it
<6> so no one has visual studio experience ;_(
<8> bewest: interesting
<2> bewest, that means we'd need to develop on windows...
<2> something tells me most of the people in here don't
<2> awesome hax
<8> Zeros: its so clutch
<8> Zeros: about to bench my homepage
<9> hello
<8> esc
<8> sup _hp_
<8> *sec
<1> Zeros, but it doesn't do css, just html, no?
<2> I love how windows shows the GUID in the permissions windows when it can't contact the domain controller to get groups
<2> SF-190299-1199292-199929FA992F-90011 is so helpful!
<7> looking for some help with oscommerce, but seems this might not be the right place, no one on #oscommerce does any one have any idea where else would be a good place to look for online realtime help ?
<2> majd, does both, but you'll need to add the CSS in an inline <style> block at the top
<1> yeah that's what i figure
<1> that's not cool
<2> just open the source view in sunrise, make your changes and click the "Make HTML" button
<2> majd, heh, I don
<2> don't see it as an issue
<1> Zeros, have you used the edit css feature of the web dev toolbar in FF?
<2> Firefox is painfully slow on a mac anyway, and web developer is worse. That "side bar" thing in Firefox is a horrible idea
<2> yes
<1> that's what i want...but in safari, that would be orgasmic
<2> aye
<2> have you looked over the plugins for Safari majd ?
<2> (http://pimpmysafari.com/)
<1> Zeros, couldn't find what i was looking for :(
<2> arg I hate windows shares :(
<2> what does "some data could not be read or written" mean...
<1> heh
<1> Zeros, samba?
<10> anybody have a copy of MFC80UD.DLL handy?
<2> majd, yeah
<1> i get that sometimes
<1> but i'm connecting to ubuntu
<1> usually it's permissions problem
<2> heh yeah
<2> well the domain at work has some issues ;/
<1> let me load up parallels
<11> how can I get the content off a webpage and into OOo or MSWord? (as in the text, not the formatting)
<1> Zeros, windows search couldn't find it :(
<12> macdo: beyond copy/paste you mean?
<2> heh majd
<2> I just gave the administrator account full access, applied it and nothing
<2> same issues :(
<11> W_: yes, I'm reveiwing a 50 page website in two languages, full of tables, frames and other nastiness...
<3> paste special?
<2> majd, the machine keeps removing my permissions... I add administrator with full access to the share, it sticks and 2 minutes later its gone from the permissions pane
<12> wget/lynx can probably do it
<13> Where can I get web 2.0?
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