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Comments:
<0> problem is some of the buttons are image buttons
<1> ajnewbold: i don't think it's particularly more regular than French/German/Italian/Japanese
<0> so, <input type="image" name="do_something" value="1"
<0> that won't work in IE
<1> especially not in real use (see Terrence)
<1> ajnewbold: everything is more regular than english of course
<2> webben: well, French and Italian inherit their exceptions from Latin :P German is full of exceptions to rules in its grammar, and Japanese is just ****ed up
<2> webben: Even though Japanese might be highly regular, all of the damn changes in grammar that are dependent on honorifics and cultural status just blow my mind :)
<2> I think Chinese might be the most regular language next to Russian, at least in terms of verbs, as there are no irregular verbs :P
<2> well, Russian's verbs conjugate but are all regular, and Chinese verbs just don't conjugate :)
<1> ah, i didn't know that :)
<2> webben: in Russian, even "to be" is regular
<1> wow
<2> yeah
<1> i wonder how that happened
<2> it's refreshing
<2> communism
<2> ;)
<1> seriously? did they regularize the language?
<2> no, hehe
<2> I'm just being a smart***
<2> but the chinese did!
<2> in the... 50s? 60s? can't recall
<1> yes ... that's why i thought it might be possible :)
<1> yeah -- they junked all the "elitist" characters in favour of some sort of alphabet, as i understand it
<1> of course the characters are still around too
<0> i want to write a javascript function that takes form_id and button_id and if image button is pressed, it'll create hidden input with same name and value of the image button and submit
<2> webben: well, Taiwan adopted a sort of alphabet... which mainland china forbids people from learning. What Beijing ordered was the vast simplification of the "old" characters
<1> so it was only a little more ore successful than the English experiment with phonetic spelling
<1> ajnewbold: to a common subset?
<2> they did however put into place the pinyin romanization system
<1> ah
<2> webben: more or less, yeah
<2> pinyin is why "Beijing" is "Beijing"... when it used to be "Peking" under Wade-Giles
<2> people see "Peking" and they pronounce it as "pay-king"
<1> i see
<2> but they should be saying "Beijing" :)
<2> since P = B and K = J, phonetically, under Wade-Giles
<1> hmmm ... makes perfect sense :)
<2> only problem this has caused is the nine million different ways to write people's names in chinese, especially historical figures
<1> more confusion, hurrah! :)
<2> pinyin says that we should spell out the key figure in Taoism as "Laozi" but you'll find it written as "Lao-tse" and "Lao-tzu" and others
<2> heh, pinyin also says it's "Daoism", not "Taoism" :P
<3> Well, it is pronounced "ao", not "Tao" ... ;)
<2> Windrose: yeah
<4> http://www.bpong.com/store/prod.php?prodid=2 JS/ajax updating of the image works in FF (change the color from black to white and back and forth), but not in IE.. i added a rand() at the end of the image to show that its updating the image div's inners. any ideas?
<2> but Mr. Wade and Mr. Giles are dead, and we can't beat them up over sparking years of confusion :P
<2> much as I'd like to
<5> hmm
<4> in IE everything else updates fine though
<4> the price
<2> "Hey you. Yeah, you two! C'mere, I've got something for you... a 'gift' from a population of confused people"
<4> the out of stock thingy
<4> bleh
<2> a KNUCKLE SANDWICH!
<3> ajnewbold: actually, we could simply ... ignore them, and stick with the Chinese way? ;)
<2> Windrose: the best way would be to use IPA
<2> (in my opinion)
<2> IPA just works, and if people would learn the characters and sounds then they could use it all over
<4> is there any way i can see what the error is in IE
<4> the javascript error
<2> nphase: there's a thing you can install from MS that provides more detailed info
<2> nphase: some kind of JS debugger
<2> nphase: I forgot the name though :(
<3> ajnewbold: in a word of Unicode, just use the 'original' characters ;)
<2> Windrose: well, yeah, that would be ideal :)
<2> heh, I wonder if anyone has an entire web site in IPA
<2> that'd be neat :)
<6> i'm using ajax + json ... and french accents get turned into numerical codes. indp0065ndante for "indpendante" ... what am i to do?
<2> lepine: encode them
<6> fsck
<2> lepine: like è
<2> I think
<2> no
<2> there's a better way
<6> ajnewbold looking into it ... but what's your better way?
<2> lepine: the better way is to use the unicode codes
<6> what does that mean for my php code and js ?
<2> well
<2> you'll still need to encode them
<2> unless you can get your ajax/json to do it for you somehow
<2> that might be your best bet... I'm sure there's a way
<7> hi
<7> how to have a div that is always on the top of my browser window ?
<8> gilianima: position it absolutely and set a very high z-index on it
<7> a very high z-index ?
<8> `css z-index
<9> Found for CSS 2 - z-index - http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-z-index
<10> use fixed positioning (posit
<10> use fixed positioning*
<10> `css position
<9> Found for CSS 2 - position - http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-position
<7> I mean a div that keeps its position even if I'm going down in the window
<11> gilianima javascript I believe is the only way to achieve that.
<1> There's an interesting-ish discussion about how to build accessibility into WHATWG specs on the WHATWG mailing list, centering around whether support should be provided by 1) standardized cl*** attributes 2) xhtml2-style roles 3) XBL2
<1> http://listserver.dreamhost.com/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-August/thread.html
<1> personally, i would have thought the best solutions would be (in order of preference)
<7> krisp: no, there a css style that allow it, I just can't remember it...
<4> any ideas with my problem?
<11> ..
<3> gilianima: 'fixed positioning'. Not well supported.
<1> 1) implicit in elements themselves 2) roles + cl***/js/xbl where necessary for UAs 3) cl*** attributes
<1> i'm curious what you folks think
<7> ok, "position: fixed" works, thanks
<1> i tend to think cl*** is overloaded as it is
<1> and the xbl2 spec mentions accessibility only once
<4> no one? :(
<1> whereas the W3C's roles/cl*** business is actually being implemented by Firefox/Window-Eyes/Jaws
<4> javascript's error on page is STUPID
<4> er
<4> IE*s
<4> and the MS script debugger wont install
<4> some stupid INF error
<1> can anyone stand that debugger anyway
<8> webben: Its better then the junk that comes with IE :)
<1> i get so cross with the way it takes about a century to load that i just give up and bug hunt by hand
<3> webben: which won't help anyone using other browsers, after all. Lets not kid ourselves - authors are going to start misusing 'role' asap.
<1> Windrose: hmm, misusing it to do what?
<3> webben: adding gibberish and claiming it has semantic value.
<1> Windrose: and 2) given authors misuse everything, does that matter?
<1> what sort of gibberish are you thinking of?
<3> Depends on your viewpoint ... it'll give people another way out of doing anything right.
<1> Windrose: do they seem short of ways out atm?
<0> <input type="image" is not included in form.elements wtf???
<0> should I stop using input type="image" all together?
<3> webben: no, but that's really no reason to make it worse.
<1> Windrose: I don't see how it could be any worse really.
<3> webben: now, if I recall correctly there are 7 predefined 'roles' - and people are going to make up more of them. Which UAs won't understand.
<3> webben: sure, with 'role', the W3C rubberstamp a way to extend the language beyond what UAs know - and make it entirely appropriate. Authors can go on producing crap /and/ have it officially approved. Which is all nice and neat.
<1> Why would anyone create a role that UAs don't understand? What would be the motive for that?
<4> does anyone have microsoft script debugger running with IE?
<12> webben, because one, or some, would understand it
<8> nphase: I got MSE running this morning
<1> W_: oh, well that's no different to the situation we have at the moment
<4> Dorward: well i cant get this to work on either computer, do you mind loading a page and telling me what the error is?
<1> where specs exceed UA capabilities at almost every turn
<4> in IE
<8> nphase: I don't have a copy of IE with access to the WWW
<4> bleh
<4> anyone else? :-/
<3> webben: but it is. Today you CAN add crap that only one UA understand - but you can be called on it. In the future you can add crap and it'd be /entirely/ approved. "Of COURSE our websites are accessible - see? WCAG 2.0. Entirely correct."
<1> Windrose: yeah, WCAG 2.0 sounds like a bit of trainwreck anyway
<8> bit? ;)
<3> Unless, of course, you want to rubberstamp a crappy site - then it's heavensent ;)
<1> I think the issue of roles and UA support probably needs to be considered separately from WCAG 2.0 .
<3> webben: well, yes, perhaps. Except for <div role="foo:paragraph"> ... </div> constructs ...
<1> isn't that a markup issue rather than an accessibility issue per se?
<1> (except in so far as UAs don't recognize roles)
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