| |
| |
| |
|
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Comments:
<0> sh1mmer, I think that's just a "method of the month" thing though
<1> O_O
<2> _W: I disagree. We are scrumming very sucessfully.
<0> the actual architects and coders just nod their heads to the managers and do as best they can
<3> sh1mmer, oh yeah, like the drag and drop programming that was supposed to replace traditional code back in the early 90's?
<0> same way they always have
<4> http://www.mono-1.com/monoface/main.html <-- creepy
<2> I think my point is the industry recognises there is a problem, just because there wasn't an instant fix doesn't make some things not valid.
<0> that isn't to say that there isn't advances. But I think any hyped methodology (be it design up front, agile methods, or whatever) hurts more than it helps, because people use it without understanding the weak points
<2> Scrum is actually becoming one of my favourite things in software development.
<0> sh1mmer, that reminds me, I read some article the other day about "the software crisis"
<2> _W: hyperbole surrounds everything in IT, that doesn't invalidate new innovations
<2> _W: it does mean you should be more careful about buying into something
<0> sh1mmer, the deal is, this software crisis was talked about over 40 years ago
<2> sure.
<2> I think the difference is that software is truly a profession now.
<2> It's not mathematicians writing software, it's people trained in software for years
<0> sh1mmer, I think you have no concept of history
<2> _W: I think you want to paint the blackest picture
<0> read up on the large software debates of decades previous
<0> sh1mmer, and why would I want to do that?
<2> cynicism is a state of mind. I choose to have an optimistic outlook.
<0> by 1970, software engineering was well established as a field of its own
<2> So far you have only painted a software industry which is entirely inert, and not open to change.
<0> sh1mmer, could you give example quotes that demonstrates this alleged attitude?
<0> ps: don't confuse a want for more progress with a belief that there is no progress
<4> dude.. watched the movie Wimbledon on TV last night.. I think it bumps Kristen Dunst to the top of my want to bang list
<0> sipher, top?
<2> Indeed, within academia, the mainstream of the professional body has subsequently been trained in a variety of things from 'computer science' to more specialised areas.
<0> I mean, she's been high up there since spiderman
<4> _W: She's been high up there since that cheerleader movie for me
<0> sh1mmer, are you changing the subject/not backing up your accusations?
<0> sipher, guess I missed that one
<2> _W: no.
<4> I can't wait for Marie Antoinette :p
<0> eh not my kind of movie
<2> _W: I'm arguing that the shift in higher educatiion indicates the recognition that software development is not a field of mathematics
<4> She plays a slut basically
<2> brb
<0> sh1mmer, you're talking about the shift that occured in the late 60's early 70's?
<4> You see Wimbledon though? It starts with her naked in the shower, and the rest of the movie she's in skimpy tennis outfits. *drool*
<3> Some of the software industry is definitely "This has all happended before, and it will all happen again."
<3> Others not so much, back in the 80's there weren't 20 different script languages that offered such great power
<3> joe schmoe programmer couldn't just download php and write a network service (hacked as it may be) in an afternoon with the socket API
<0> sipher, I rarely watch a movie *just* for the pretty girls
<0> Zeros, you mean, back in the 80's there weren't any such large scripting language that everyone used?
<4> It was a late night movie. That's what was on
<0> rather everyone had their own
<3> _W, Large scale applications were not generally written in them
<0> yeah I'd say you're wrong there
<3> Businesses used to use COBOL for everything
<3> Then Java was a front line "solution" and java 1.6 now executes JavaScript
<0> you just don't know what homemade-one-user-scripting-language that big-niche-app was buildt upon, because it wasn't open source
<0> (and there wasn't a huge web that could make it popular)
<5> Zeros: cobol what? :)
<3> _W, So all those IBM Machinframes and PDP machines were running script languages?
<3> mainframes*
<3> hardly
<0> Zeros, a lot of them were running their own custom language made specifically for some niche, yes
<3> smalltalk was slick, but it was never as fast as C
<0> which doesn't mean that wasn't buildt upon cobol again
<3> And now we have python and lua which are fast as hell and don't require strict typing
<5> Zeros: any idea what the licensing is like for lua?
<3> The software industry is changing
<5> Zeros: more and more apps are coming lua ready
<5> wonder if it costs them in license
<3> hax, pretty lax as I imagine, WoW uses it
<5> Zeros: so does supreme commander
<3> yeah
<0> Zeros, "require strict typing", don't you consider strict typing a drastic advance in software engineering?
<5> (which is coming out soon, and is gonna totally kick ***)
<3> _W, no, I consider explicit strict typing a step *backwards* in engineering
<0> heh
<3> Languages that imply typing got it right
<0> well, we'll just agree to disagree on that I guess
<3> Socket sock = new Socket()
<0> it's one of those holy war things
<3> funny, didn't I just break DRY?
<5> heh
<5> _W: zeros just nailed you there :P
<0> hmm?
<0> was that a joke I didn't get or something?
<3> at any rate, _W there's absolutely no way you can say that the state of software development and the practices we use were the same in 1980 as they are now
<0> Zeros, never have, never will
<3> alright, that's the notion I was getting :p
<0> there's just repeating tendencies
<3> :)
<6> http://www.lua.org/license.html
<3> I think we're repeatedly solving similar problems, and creating new ones _W
<5> ah, MIT
<5> bewest: btw, have you seen yahoo pipes?
<3> OO programming solved a ton of problems, and created a whole new mess of them
<3> So we got Aspect Oriented Programming to try and solve that
<0> the looking for a "silver bullet", the hyping of what is new, the lack of long-term planning
<3> and I'm sure in 10 years there will be something else trying to solve those problems
<6> hax: no :-(
<5> bewest: pipes.yahoo.com ... this is your kind of project
<6> hax: I tried to look at it but it said it was down
<5> bewest: very cool stuff
<3> _W, that's typical of all the tech industries
<5> whoops, brb
<3> and most industries in general
<0> Zeros, aye
<0> it's typically human, in facty
<0> -y
<7> Heh, re-watching SG1 - i'd forgotten just how many times Daniel Jackson dies or is thought to be dead.
<3> ptlis, or the sheer number of clichs per episode?
<6> wow
<7> It's great, isn't it :)
<3> yep
<6> pipes is like an ajaxified data-centric version of jmax or something
<3> _W, I'm just waiting for the Web 2.0 bubble. Pips launched and days later its down because of such heavy load, google launches something and it's hammered by new users, we're ramping up the same hill
<3> pipes*
<3> the question is where's the other side? :P
<6> google has somethign similar?
<3> To pipes? No. Other services google has launched like Analytics were hit with such heavy load after launch the system buckled
<6> I wonder how they did the curved lines like that
<6> oh
<0> Zeros, well, it won't be much like the first bubble, not that many people have invested millions this time around
<3> _W, Not yet anyway. The game these days is to make some kind of nifty service, spend all your venture capital and wait for a big player (ie google) to buy you out
<3> MySpace I'm sure will be the first to fall, no social networking site has ever lasted very long
<6> why would myspace fall?
<0> well that's what happened the first time around as well
<6> there's all kinds of businesses surrounding myspace
<8> Nah, they have too much momentum.
<3> bewest, lack of interest, its a fad.
<8> When other companies sell tools to manipulate your myspace site, that's a sign you've made it.
<6> yeah
<3> MTV had the same thing, remember?
<3> and look at them now :/
<0> last I checked, mtv was still around
<9> myspace has made it, but they really wont last in the end
<3> _W, certainly still around, a major player? not so much.
<6> mattmcc: there are companies that sell ads to places like reebok, for example, and get them placed on myspace by tricking people to embedding the ad in "free content"
<6> for example, a myspace user is looking for a funny picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head, and wants to put it on their myspace page
<8> I have a friend with a band, and his myspace profile gets him 10x as much interest as his real website.
<6> they go to this other website to copy/paste the html necessary to do so
<3> Yeah, they're at the peak now
<8> What is it with bunnies and pancakes, anyway? :P
<6> the website embeds text in the html alt and link text, and makes an URL to the advertiser that paid for it
<3> So who here has a Friendster account?
<3> That's my case right there
<3> MySpace, as with all these social networking things, beany babies, pogs, whatever, it all grows exponentially and then collapses in on itself
<0> it's not a bursting bubble until a *lot* of buisnesses go under without being bought up by bigger players
<9> but the internet grew expontentially too
<9> and we've had phases on it
<3> dwsteve, the internet isn't a fad though, its not just entertainment.
<0> in all fields of buisness some will succeed some will fail
<9> but what about the web
Return to
#web
or
Go to some related
logs:
phpprobid php5
#ldap
suse northamerica zoneinfo
#css
MicrosoftFonts rpm
howto defrag ubuntu
gentoo forcedeth autoload
wg511v2 driver ubuntu
damn small linux find knoppix file system
#gimp
|
|