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Comments:
<0> webben, and so... they start from a visual approach
<1> webben, so if you could automate the task of a human hand-painting some ceramics (say by making a machine that could create a skilled painter from scratch) what then?
<0> it's normal that photoshop doesn't understand html. In fact you can work only on visual layout
<2> _W_: good question, but i got to run :)
<1> yes, but you do the parts independantly
<0> after that, when you have a general vision of layout, you can work on html/css
<1> and to do the parts, you have to have some idea of where they should go
<1> oh sure
<0> don't think so
<1> it's usually a combination, if you look at it that way
<1> I think most people have some simple scetches first
<1> then make graphics parts that might fit it
<1> and rearrange it in html/css, perhaps going back to the drawing board if it didn't look good
<0> is there an article on web to do that?
<0> to create a layout approaching from visual^
<1> not really, just read up on positioning, background images, floats, flow, etc
<0> yes, using structural approach then :P
<3> hi all. im having an issue with ie vs firefox. on the page www.aces-limited.com/home the logo image displays fine in firefox but does not display in ie6 (image name is ACES_web_logo.gif). any help?
<4> Just for you?
<4> ie6 has old cache of image, maybe?
<0> http://accessites.org/gbcms_xml/news_page.php?id=19
<3> kcaj a reload didnt fix it.
<1> same sympthom here
<1> perhaps the div overwrites it
<1> try meddling with the z-order, and if that's it, try moving the image before the div
<1> in the source
<5> WebDragon: cool
<3> _W_, will try that thanks, i prolly should redo some of the code for that site anyway, i know tonnes more than i did when i first designed it.
<6> aloha
<6> the src= of an image.. should that contain the whole URL or only the relative path to the current dir? (also for search engines)
<3> jax either way works. or if the image is in the same dir as the html file, then just the file name works too.
<1> the less specific path is usually prefered
<1> not for search engines or user agents, but because it's much easier to maintain
<1> you can just move a folder to a different place, or a different domain, and it will still work
<6> yes, but from a search engine point of view
<1> Jax don't worry about search engines
<6> it's direct monetary return
<6> which is an important point if you want to stay in business on the web these days
<1> and whatever you do to get a better result in a search engine, is likely to get you worse result from users
<1> which again influences your income
<6> i don't quite know what you mean by that statement
<1> Jax, you can worry about search engines, but know that search engine results is not the end goal; the end goal is users
<6> ah i have something special going on here. i have a seperate site just for search engines
<6> so has nothing to do with useability really
<1> that's against the terms of most search engines
<6> indeed.
<1> and if discovered, will quickly get you dumped
<6> not really
<6> it all links to the correct content
<6> the only way to deal with flash sites
<1> also, what if someone has their user-agent header set to a bot's string?
<6> ok how freaky is that ;)
<1> very
<6> hehe
<1> but it happens
<1> for one, those users gets much more accurate search results :p
<6> ;)
<1> Jax, seriously, you get better results if you just ignore search engines
<1> make sure you have the best possible content instead, and the users will ensure your rating is high
<7> hey hax, you around?
<8> bla
<7> :/
<8> bla
<9> I'm slow today.
<7> :p
<10> cute
<7> mattmcc, http://enfinitystudios.thaposse.net/viewpoints/webstandards/projector/ and comments? Use spacebar to toggle the slide controls (or the little black bar at the bottom), left and right arrow change slide too.
<7> s/and/any/
<9> Hmm. Prior to hitting space, I didn't have a bar at the bottom.
<0> cool
<9> What happens if a slide is taller than the page?
<0> only prb for me is that I can't see entire slide
<0> (ff 1.5.0.6 on win)
<7> mattmcc, gets cut off, I'm showing it on a projector at 1024x768, prints like a powerpoint would with 4 slides per page
<7> and what I meant by bar at the bottom is that there's a real small little "_" in the far left corner that does toggles the controls
<7> Zitter, decrease your font size?
<9> Ah. I see there's a link there, but I don't have a visible line.
<7> hmm, I only tested in Firefox 1.0.7, I hacked that thing up last night :p
<7> anyway, I was asking more for criticism on the content, any last minute things you think I should mention? :)
<0> Zeros, there is not scroll bar, so I cannot see content on bottom. Also decreasing font size, prb remains
<9> Ah, I see the little black bar in IE.
<7> and in Firefox 1.0.7 and Safari :p
<7> Zitter, prb?
<0> content that doesn't appear, the content in the bottom. I don't see it
<9> Zeros: Might be worth mentioning other namespaces like SVG or MathML for your 'When to use XHTML'
<7> oh good point
<7> and I know firefox does weird things with the printing, I used display:table and safari gets the rows and columns right at at least...
<10> shouldn't that say #web, not #freenode? ;)
<7> woops
<9> FF shouldn't treat display: table weird.
<9> It's how FF handles actual tables.
<7> well I'm not sure, mattmcc look at a print preview of what Firefox does. I fixed the height and width of each of the slide cells and the container
<7> Firefox ends up with one slide per page and the side of them cut off
<7> Safari gets 2 per page and they fit neatly :p
<7> err 4 per page
<9> Messy.
<7> yeah, I suppose I'll look further into it when I have some time :)
<7> thanks Zitter, mattmcc and gxti
<11> How evil is using <br/>'s in your HTML these days?
<11> Is just seems so much simpler than <p>'s in some places.
<12> hey
<5> screw it
<9> levander: Typically a CSS margin or padding would be better.
<9> Although there are a few cases (Poetry, for example) where <br> is appropriate.
<12> I'm still stuck on my disappearing container divs on IE6: http://www.halcyonflow.com/gallery.php
<13> hello
<12> It works fine in IE7 beta 3, Firefox, and Opera. I think it has something to do with floating elements inside a width:auto container. I've used clear:both elements to get the various divs in position, but the category containers still won't appear properly.
<13> I want to ban java scripts from being executed in my site.. is it enough to just remove all <script tags? can java scrip run without this?
<11> mattmcc: cool, think i'm gonna use br's in this case...
<12> If anyone has a clue why IE6 is doing this, please let me know. This is the last IE problem I have to fix, and it's driving me nuts.
<9> levander: What are you using them for, out of curiousity?
<11> mattmcc: okay, i started to explain that, lemme try again
<11> mattmcc: I've got 'posts' that go in 'categories'. Each post can go in more than one category. Categories can have a parent, that parent can have a parent, etc. So, at the top of a page that displays a post, I've got breadcrumbs at the top of a page that indicate what category ancestry a post is in. For each ancestry (aka breadcrumbs) I've got one line at the top of the page.
<2> Rehevkor, didn't we fix this already?
<12> nope
<12> partially fixed
<11> mattmcc: That line at the top of the page, I can either mark off that it's a line with <br/>'s or <p>'s.
<11> mattmcc: That line at the top of the page that lists the breadcrumbs.
<12> before the divs were scattered everywhere and deformed. I was able to get them to lay out properly in IE6 using clear:both divs
<12> I still can't get the container div to actually show up around each image category though
<9> levander: Or you could contain the line in a block-level element..
<11> mattmcc: like a div, or in list items?
<9> Sure.
<11> mattmcc: they probably should be list items, but what's the point of being so strict about 'conceptual compliance'? I get it in the general design, but a detail like this?
<2> Rehevkor: you should try and fix the 12 errors in the HTML before trying to fix the CSS
<12> what errors?
<2> http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://www.halcyonflow.com/gallery.php
<12> what the hell
<12> that validated five minutes ago
<12> well anyway, it looks the same either way. i'll fix them now.
<9> levander: Well, it tends to be more useful than <br>'s. For example, you can actually access the contents of each ancestory line, because they're contained within their own element.
<9> For styling, for scripting, for parsing, whatever.
<11> mattmcc: yeah, i guess i'm just not styling or scripting it right now, so don't see the point, if i want to do that stuff, you're right i'll have to change it. But, if this were a large project with multiple people working on it, I probably would change it now, like you say.
<12> *sigh* I was trying some other fixes and managed to screw up my previous fix. Great.
<9> levander: So why not design for flexibility now, rather than having to change it later? :)
<2> i wonder why that page is so different to http://www.halcyonflow.com/software.php
<11> mattmcc: I probably should. But the possibility seems so remote for this application...
<11> The possibility of needing the markup for that stuff.
<12> webben: what do you mean?
<9> levander: Famous last words ;)
<2> Rehevkor: i mean why the boxes on software work so much better in ie6 than those in gallery
<12> webben: all of those images in the gallery are contained in divs floated left. almost all of my IE6 troubles so far have been with floating elements
<11> mattmcc: Blah, I can change it later when I'm not fed up with the whole thing if I need it.
<12> where, normally, should clear:both divs be placed when floating things like this? I've just been moving them around randomly without much success
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