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Comments:
<0> kirun: also, i think, ***
<1> SL is Open Source now?
<1> Hot damn.
<2> yo
<0> sup sh1mmer
<2> was interesting
<0> whats that?
<2> Royal National Institute of the Blind
<0> which is?
<3> hax: Exactly what it sounds like.
<0> a charity? or a university?
<0> maybe a government agency?
<0> ah, charity and lobbyist group
<0> whoa, c4 explosive found in miami port
<2> hax: there is one in basically every country with a different name
<0> sh1mmer: what'd you learn? and why were you there?
<4> anyone else thinks table layouting still owns css layouting?
<0> no
<2> hax: training a new accessibility QA guy. They were demoing ***istive technology for us.
<0> sh1mmer: oh cool
<5> peace-keeper: very few in this neck of the woods, I'd imagine
<2> peace-keeper: people who learned web design in 1996 and html 3.2
<0> peace-keeper: the only times you should use tables are for tabular data... and also for shrink-wrapping (apparently), because IE is broken
<4> thats me :)
<0> there's no other reason for it
<2> peace-keeper: and that then stopped learning.
<0> peace-keeper: css is only like 8 years old... you shuold probably consider actually getting familiar with it
<4> yeah yeah
<3> hax: Over 10 years old now
<6> Using table layouts is like being an alcoholic... just instead of "one more drink can't hurt" it's "one more level of indenting can't hurt"
<0> oh, i guess so
<0> peace-keeper: it's not that bad if you have to use a table to force IE to comply (i think, anyway)... but there's no reason to use it for every part of the layout
<4> well for many people table layouting is very intuitive.. and sometimes you just want to get a job done fast
<0> its really not very intuitive
<0> it was a huge hack to begin with
<0> peace-keeper: it would take me longer to do a layout with tables than css
<4> yes, you
<2> Windrose: allo
<2> Windrose: was talking to Ann about you :D
<2> all good, promise
<7> guys i need to know if is a good idea make some java web start to capture udio from microphone of user and send the captured audio to some ip
<2> was amusing though Ann: "Small company called Grey Tower, you probably won't have heard of them" Tom: "Oh Tina, yes I had an arguement with her last night"
<2> heheh
<8> spying eh?
<0> [poste9]: sounds like a bad idea
<3> [poste9]: You are likely to find more support for Flash.
<2> hax: that's not true actually
<0> [poste9]: yes, flash is definitely and easier way to do it
<2> hax: in HTML 3.2 tables were explicitly listed as a layout technique
<8> use quicktime, then if they have a mac, you can use quicktime to capture an image of them with thier built in isight camera
<2> hax: people thought that using a grid would be a good way to markup a page
<7> ok
<0> sh1mmer: i thought some dude came up with the technique
<7> tks
<2> hax: It's in the HTML 3.2 standard
<0> sh1mmer: like as in its creditted to him
<0> sh1mmer: i did not know that
<3> HTML 3.2 was an attempt to describe the then current state of the web, not to be a good markup language. HTML 4.x explicitly warns against the technique.
<2> hax: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#table
<2> Dorward: right. It's just fair to note it was ok once, doing it post 3.2 is bad.
<0> how about tht
<0> *that
<0> heh
<2> hax: well it makes sense, it was a lesson learned upon maturity
<0> yeah
<2> hax: when the only people who use the web are a small group of geeks there isn't much a market for accessibility or robots etc
<9> Dorward: how is XML for server side site representation?
<3> barrensoul: Usually more trouble then it is worth.
<10> for extra zest - use a hint of butter soaked parmasean and shredded provolone lightly browned on the fringes of the quesadilla
<10> woops
<0> sh1mmer: so the lesson is... dont leave geeks alone with poorly planned technology?: P
<9> my friend is using it to make his site modular -_-
<0> iratik: lol
<2> hax: not poorly planned.
<9> I think he should juts make a template engine
<2> hax: unanticipated is more appropriate
<0> sh1mmer: :)
<2> hax: part of the problem is the web moves so fast writing standards is a total ****
<0> hahah, they're still debating the mystery smell in ny
<10> barrensoul: XML ****s for everything but documents - use ddf or json - its mostly unstandardized and therefore is not ****
<3> barrensoul: I think he should just use an existing template engine.
<9> meh he'll learn his lesson eventually
<0> sup xahlee
<11> hi hax. happy 2007.
<0> yeah, same
<12> Ok guys, this is driving my insane. I would think it simple. I have 3 divs, inside the first div is an image and some text. The 2nd and 3rd divs is just text. The image has align="left", which is synonymous for float:left obviously. Because these divs are self-contained, I figured that the 2nd and 3rd would be unaffected by the floated image, but they're not. They all bump up against it instead of starting afterwards. Why is this? It seems cra
<0> VolVE: you might do better with a link to the site
<12> I would if I could
<12> it's not live
<0> make a mockup then
<12> I don't have any live servers to show you
<12> (even if I made a mockup)
<0> well, you should get webhosting somewhere
<12> <sigh>
<1> Anyone know of a free IE browsercaps service?
<10> VolVE: or just run xampp and give out your ip
<12> hang on, hang on, I'm trying to paste something from work to home
<0> 'lo JibberJim
<9> Dorward: if you wanted to just make a simple page layout what template engine would you recommend?
<3> barrensoul: Template-Toolkit
<9> danke
<9> hmmm he thinks XML provides a better seperation of design and implementation -_-
<9> XD
<12> hax, iratik: here's whay I was talking about: http://www.volved.com/crazy_float.html
<13> Urgh
<13> Just got 3x 22" widescreen TFTs
<12> basically the pink rows should (I would have thought) start below the image and the div that contains it... :(
<13> Got them home, unpackaged them and find they've only got DSUB and no DVI cables :(
<13> And i've only got one DSUB->DVI adapter
<10> hmmm
<12> any ideas?
<10> VolVE: like this?http://www.ctatechs.com:666/crazy_float.html
<12> yes
<10> added style='height:200px' to the parent div of .smallArticleTitle
<12> I don't know how tall they're going to be though
<12> the text next to the image is going to be variable :(
<10> yeah.. that's a tuf one
<10> well.... actually
<10> you just need to guarantee the height of the image
<12> :-/
<12> I can't guarantee that either! :(
<10> since overflow != hidden ,, it will expand as necessary rgiht?
<12> stupid user-controlled data
<10> well .. find out the height of the image server side and just p*** that through
<12> can't do that either, the height isn't stored
<12> (thanks backend guys!)
<10> what are you then?
<10> just strictly the html guy
<12> well, I'm a bit more than that, but I'm definitely not image uploading routine-guy ;)
<0> http://break.com/index/effect_of_drugs_and_alcohol_on_spider_webs.html
<14> good evening, anyone who knows why ie is giving stack errors in my application after i refresh the page and try the exact same thing that worked before the refresh in the same page?? (click insert1 or insert2 on http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/go.schrieken/cacheBeheer/testcase/ in ie before and after refresh, ff and opera works fine) (http://rafb.net/p/AMDScC90.html the js file)
<0> i lol'd
<12> yeah hax that was pretty funny
<10> well it may not be stored .. but you can get the image size some way VolVE
<0> VolVE: you've seen it?
<10> use gd.. use witchcraft
<12> yup
<12> ha
<12> Java server dude
<0> yeah, very funny
<12> don't get be started
<12> be = me
<12> so there's no way to clear the 1st div with the floated image without having it inadvertently clear the blue column? :(
<0> VolVE: wait, what?
<0> VolVE: sorry, i was afk, whats the link again?
<12> http://www.volved.com/crazy_float.html
<0> and whats the problem?
<12> basically the div that has the image and descriptuion text needs to have a clear after it so the pink divs start after that first div
<12> but if I put a simple <div clear:both>, it pops everything down so it's below the level of the blue column to the left
<12> and that's obviously not right
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