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Comments:
<0> *concludes
<1> meeting the man of your dreams and then meeting his beautiful wife is also ironic
<2> not at all
<3> heh
<3> reisio: Give up.
<3> None of those things are ironic.
<4> lol
<1> I'd say her lyrics are 95% accurate
<3> Most are just unfortunate.
<5> isn't it ironic?
<3> Others just stupid.
<0> or stupid
<0> heh
<3> :D
<3> haha
<1> it's not my fault you can't use a dictionary :p
<6> reisio: That's because your understanding of irony is completely inaccurate.
<3> It's not my fault you can't UNDERSTAND a dictionary.
<1> my understand hardly factors in
<6> Irony has _nothing_ to do with something unfortunate happening.
<1> there is a definition of irony and that's what most of those lines in the song fit into
<1> understanding*
<6> Where's your reasonable expectation that meeting "the man of your dreams" means he'll be single?
<6> Where's the expectation that because you have time to smoke, a place to smoke will be made available to you?
<1> it has nothing to do with reason
<1> it has to do with what a person expects
<1> don't ADD **** to a definition, just read it
<0> the definition you're insisting on using isn't the one that's used by anyone who understands irony
<6> A person expecting good weather on their wedding is, well, an idiot. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
<1> insin: that's their insane problem :p
<1> mattmcc: that may be
<1> but it's still ironic
<0> "Now do you know what's ironic? A stupid, whiny Canadian bint writing a song called 'Ironic' which goes on to become a m***ive worldwide hit despite her not having the faintest idea what irony actually is. Now that's bleedin' ironic." :-D
<6> No, it's not.
<1> yes, it's
<1> it's ironic that you guys have nothing better to do than be wrong :p
<2> hehe
<2> "Morissette once said herself that the biggest irony of "Ironic" is that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all.""
<6> Heh.
<6> I wonder if her agent told her to say that.
<2> http://www.answers.com/topic/ironic
<6> "Um, girl? You're going to look like an idiot if you don't say something like this to cover your ***."
<1> you're probably misinterpreting that quote as well
<6> So all evidence we present is wrong, because you're right.
<1> it's not me
<6> Yes, it is.
<1> it's the most authoritative English dictionary in existence
<6> The OED definition directly contradicts all your examples.
<1> if you don't understand the words in the definition, then just look those up, too
<3> It'd be ironic to teach that virginity is important as a nun.
<3> Then become a prostitute.
<2> reisio: but you still miss the point of expectation in a lot of your examples
<3> that's irony
<1> yes, that is ironic
<3> now, let's play a game.
<3> it's called, STFU reisio.
<2> for example, the man of your dreams thing isn't ironic - why would you expect that no one else would want a guy so special that he's the man of your dreams?
<1> mattmcc: okay for example - if you wont the lottery, you would expect to die the next day?
<7> debating the meaning of english words is rather difficult in a global audience, as words do not have single meanings...
<1> and you wouldn't see that as perverse?
<6> reisio: If I _didn't_ win the lottery, would I expect to die the next day?
<6> reisio: What impact does winning the lottery have on that expectation?
<1> mattmcc: not winning the lottery isn't in the song
<3> It'd be ironic to get life insurance and then die the next day.
<2> decore: yes
<3> that's irony
<6> reisio: That's not the point. You're ***erting that there is irony in winning the lottery and dying the next day.
<8> wow you guys are still talking about this
<1> JibberJim: tell that to the idiots here that can't read meaning #2
<1> mattmcc: indeed I am
<1> mattmcc: you still haven't answered my question, however
<3> What does death have to do with lottery?
<3> the two situations are not connected..
<1> what do beans have to do with monkies?
<6> reisio: No, I wouldn't. Nor would I expect to die if I _didn't_ win the lottery. Once again, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
<1> the questioning is: if you won the lottery, would you expect to die the next day? Would you see dying the next day as perverse?
<3> Irony would be winning the lottery and finding out you're in debt by 40 million the next day.
<3> Not ****ing dying.
<6> reisio: No. Because everybody does.
<1> mattmcc: then you just agreed with me that it's ironic
<1> decore: that'd possibly be _more_ ironic
<1> but they're both ironic
<6> Unfair, unfortunate, sure. But perverse? No.
<5> reisio, it's unexpected, but not poignant or incongruous
<3> It's also ironic that someone who has no idea what ironic means is preaching to me about the meaning of irony.
<3> heh
<3> Now my head just exploded.
<3> Thanks.
<3> ^_^
<1> mattmcc: "2 contrary to that which is accepted or expected." -- http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/perverse?view=uk
<8> is it ironic that someone lost an arguement to their dad so they came to argue with people on an irc channel?
<5> reisio, you can't apply dictionary definitions literally
<1> _W_: um, unexpected is part of the definition
<3> That doesn't mean a contrary event is always ironic. If that were the case the word ironic wouldn't exist!
<1> YOU just agreed with me, too
<6> evoL`: No, just sad.
<1> you are all so ****ing clueless :p
<8> ahh thanks!
<2> reisio: the point being that the expectation is of something happening as a result of the event
<1> _W_: "2 a state of affairs that appears perversely _contrary_ to what one _expects_."
<3> Irony consists of about 3 things. Expectations. Surprises. And outcomes.
<5> and how is it perverse?
<2> you're reading from the compact/concise dictionary i.e. with long interpretation taken out
<1> _W_: how is what perverse?
<0> reisio: you're latching onto the "unexpected" part without relating the items in question
<5> your example of dying after you've won the lottery
<1> insin: I'm really not :)
<4> i think your all on crack
<0> would you say it's ironic if I open my fridge and find a mountain lion in it?
<4> you should share
<1> _W_: you wouldn't find someone dying the day after they won the lottery "2 contrary to that which is accepted or expected." ?
<1> because that's 'perverse'
<6> insin: No, I'd find that hillarious.
<3> Oh.
<5> reisio, it's contrary to expectation, but not perversely so
<3> It all makes sense now.
<3> Never mind.
<1> insin: probably not
<3> reisio is a gentoo user.
<3> he can't be helped.
<3> moving on.
<1> _W_: dude, where is your mind
<1> '2 contrary to that which is accepted or expected.' = perverse
<0> reisio: well, my opening of my fridge and the mountain lion are about as related as winning the lottery and dying
<1> it's practically the same ****ing word
<2> so dying is always ironic?
<5> reisio, you're missing the part about not using dictionary definitions literally
<0> as in, not at all
<1> you basically just said 'perverseness is not perverse'
<1> that's ****ING STUPID :p
<2> reisio: being hit by a bus is ironic?
<3> Just because something is unexpected doesn't make it ironic. If that were the case the very WORD irony wouldn't exist.
<3> It would just be unexpected. period.
<1> GarethAdams: probably not
<2> reisio: but it's not what I expect
<6> reisio: What about being hit by a bus after eating a cheeseburger?
<4> you guys are making me want to get my old crackpipe out of the box it lives in .. in my closet..
<2> it's a bit perverse
<1> GarethAdams: then maybe it's ironic to you
<2> reisio: so you expect to be hit by a bus?
<0> mindwarper: careful, I hear it's moreish
<3> mattmcc: It'd be ironic to be hit by a cow after eating a cheeseburger.
<3> :D
<1> GarethAdams: not especially
<2> then it would be ironic?
<4> what is moreish ?
<8> maybe it's ironic that you guys aren't fighting in the #irony channel
<1> GarethAdams: what, being hit by a bus?
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