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Comments:
<0> where's jesus?
<1> hax, hiding in a pair of old crutches?
<0> zcat: i don't get it
<0> but entirely possible
<1> hax, bad jesse ventura joke
<0> oh
<0> google tells me http://www.whereisjesus.com/
<0> which is really funny
<0> never seen that before
<0> zcat: i can't find jesus the 10th time
<2> I think i'm going to get drunk
<0> Holy bejeezus, you have found Jesus 11 times! You are finally saved!
<0> i wih
<0> *win
<3> hax: the last one was really easy
<0> GarethAdams: yeah, sure, after you've seen it
<0> lol
<4> i loved the one with the chinese
<4> actually the 70s geeks were even cooler. they all looked like jesus.
<3> hmm
<3> looks like they don't validate their form inputs on that jesus site
<5> hey anyone has opinions on TextDrive hosting?
<6> hello everybody. any advice about php frameworks? which one to use and why? i'm about to grab one for my new project and looking for the right way to go...
<2> you should evalute what your project is first
<2> then look at frameworks that match those requirements
<7> nono, there's One Best Framework, and he has to have it
<2> One framework to rule them all! RAWRRRRR
<7> birk, what are you looking to a framework for, that plain old PHP doesn't provide?
<7> that'll tell you the most really
<6> i need a framework, because my code is too messy now :D
<6> and i need to speed up a bit
<7> no, you need to learn some coding guidelines then
<2> a framework wont clean your code
<7> a framework will slow down well written code
<2> _W_ no
<7> Element43, at worst, it would be identical speed, as you'd just replicate the framework on your own
<2> meh
<7> s/worst/best
<2> Some frameworks help in development speed and/or preventing the reinventing the wheel
<6> yes, that's my problem
<2> I'm not a PHP developer ( I know some php but I don't do it for a living)
<7> sure
<7> birk, really, if your code is slow without a framework, chances are it will be slow with it
<7> better to learn what you are doing wrong
<6> i need to speed up my development process, not my code ;)
<4> _W_ he means development speed, not execution speed
<7> oh right
<6> yes, exactly
<7> what are you making then?
<4> birk
<7> or rather, what part of the code are you spending the most time on?
<4> any code you haven't made is like cancer. you don't want it :P
<6> another thing is, i use to cooperate with more people on one project so we decided to find some common ground
<2> birk you are rather vague and don't have any real requirements for a need of a framework to be honest.
<2> birk, when working with more than one developer, a framework isn't going to sovle issues with variables names and such. I don't know if php has namespaces and I really don't know what your dev environment is or what versioning system you are using.
<7> I mean, if you spend 50% of your time on glue code, I can understand a framework
<8> so, any good recommendations for a good book on dhtml?
<7> I have this loathing for the term "dhtml" and I don't know why
<2> the Oreilly DHTML one is nice, or hteir JavaScript one.
<2> _W_ because in like 97 dhtml was pretty evil
<7> wait, is it a term invented by microsoft?
<2> i have no idea, but it is an old term
<6> i spend a lot of time with "reinventing the wheel" for example
<2> well what wheel
<7> birk, but what wheels are you reinventing?
<2> i mean, what problems do you think you are solving with a framework?
<2> if you are looking to move into say a MVC style framework because of hte development style then I can understand that. But you really arn't giving anything for us to suggest something.
<6> i always wrote my own functions for handling data layer, validation etc.
<7> validation is perhaps one of the things that can be abstracted some
<7> but isn't there some validation helper library out there that you can use?
<7> I always thought of a "framework" as a collection of component closely entangled, so you had to use them together
<7> better to use individual components if possible, so you can replace just part of it if the need arrises
<2> _W_: a framework can do a lot of things. It really depends what that framework's goals are
<7> the sky is sometimes blue
<6> ok. to put it another way. im not a newbie in a php world. on the other hand, im not even a real programmer (im a philosopher! :D). what i really miss while working on my php project is some concise syle - the way how to build an app. i always able to deploy it at the end and my clients are happy (sometimes), but, anyway, i have some kind of "messy" feeling after that. at the end, it's always glued in a chaotic way... i hope a framework could bring a - framework -
<6> life.
<2> a framework might make you feel more confident in your work, but you think your code might still feel messy.
<4> birk read up on MVC
<4> :P
<2> :D
<7> birk, I always approach programming as a challenge to my laziness. The less I have to do to get what I want done, the better. The natural outcome is libraries of reusable code
<2> hehe
<8> birk: the new book Ajax in Action talks a lot about proper design patterns. very good stuff
<2> it really depends on why you are programming _W_ ;)
<7> well, it's a bit of an aestetic judgement as well of course
<7> Element43, because you get paid for it?
<7> heh
<2> right now yes heh
<2> but other times it is because I have something I want to do
<2> right now I am building a fun little cms system in python just to learn osme
<4> birk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_view_controller
<4> and also look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern
<7> I wrote MVC apps long before I knew what MVC was
<2> I would do it in ruby, but ruby runs like a dog on windows :(
<7> it's really a natural pattern
<2> _W_ or because you had good teachers / learning material
<2> _W_ the natrual pattern is pretty inline
<6> thanks
<2> _W_ every new programmer I've seen (that isn't java or C# as a first language) tend to think differently
<4> _W_ i was never taught in programming and i came up with MVC on my own
<4> actually, an MVC framework was the first thing i did with php
<4> :P
<7> I started out with ***embler, if you can believe it
<2> I started out with C++ (not uber geek)
<2> well C then C++ (but only 1 year of C)
<7> in ***embler, you *need* code structure to find anything in a project of some size
<7> but you really reinvent the wheels you don't know about
<4> o rly?
<4> heheh
<9> is allofmp3.com legal? does anyone *really* know?
<10> ajnewbold: doubt anyone really know.
<9> if it's really legal, then it's kind of cool -- if it's not, then why am I paying somebody to profit from piracy, when I could just pirate myself for free... :/
<9> I just bought AC/DC's "Big Balls" for $0.07
<9> :D
<11> Monopolies ****
<11> Every DSL service in the area ultimately works through AT&T, and I get chronic connection issues
<1> ajnewbold, legal in russia. the US hasn't outlawed any global websites. instead they get the creditcard companies to cut the money supply off.
<12> Nanobot: AT&T is involved in just about every internet connection
<12> Nanobot: they log where you're going :P
<11> Amaranth: I mean as far as the setup and stuff. No matter who you sign up with, it'll be the AT&T guys who come to your house and set up your connection. And it's them who somehow screwed up our area. For several blocks around us, DSL connections drop several times a day.
<12> Nanobot: fun
<11> Of course, they take no responsibility for the problem
<11> Why bother? It's not like we have an alternative
<11> Except maybe satellite, but I'd rather not go that route
<11> And now I'm out of leftover pizza. 'Tis a sad, sad day
<11> Poorly researched news articles really irritate me
<13> waaah!
<13> Boo!
<13> And that's how the cookie crumbles
<7> Nanobot, you mustn't read much news then, either that or go around popping veins all day
<14> Im using the rewrite engine, but I wonder if its possible to do some string replacements using the engine aswell?
<14> essentialy, I want a rule that replaces \s with _ in my URLs
<15> i've got a form, and i've got a drop down box. I can't figure out how to make a certain option selected when someone goes to the page, I tried putting "selected" in but it doesn't work because it has a value
<9> Noia: I can think of an easy way to do it with php, but not at the apache level
<9> hintswen: <option value="10" selected>
<9> hintswen: I think that's the syntax
<9> hintswen: I stole that from some other page, and it seems to work :)
<15> nope
<14> ajnewbold: hmmm...not sure how I can do that though, because I have stuff like /Data/Some title here/Page:3
<15> not for me, i've got bad luck lol
<14> hmm
<15> oops, page didn't upload lol
<16> hi
<15> nope, it doesn't work
<9> Noia: the way I've ever done rewriting is to have a very simple rule that just directs *anything* that isn't an actual file to a single script, like index.php or whatever
<14> ajnewbold: how is it you get the requested uri in php again >.<
<9> Noia: and then I have index.php parse $_SERVER['QUERY_STRING'] to determine what to do
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