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Comments:
<0> 1 sec :)
<1> god i've tried 3 or 4 different tutorials on how to fetch mouse posistion with js
<1> *position
<2> Zeros: oops, sorry, was missing 1 image
<2> refresh
<1> any ideas?
<0> hax, do you have a windows desktop?
<2> Zeros: no :(
<0> :(
<2> Zeros: i very rarely do something like this where i really need to test on ie
<2> heh
<0> if you see an old machine laying around, p2 is good
<2> yeah, i know
<0> I just use RDC :)
<0> slick layout hax
<2> Zeros: :)
<2> oops one things off in the css
<0> hrm, well I see a few issues in IE
<2> sec Zeros
<0> k
<2> Zeros: fixed
<2> sorry, i don't know how that slipped through
<0> ok so the white login box is the first thing that I see
<2> Zeros: could you sshot?
<0> the columns in IE also don't end up next to each other, hmm
<0> yeah I'll look at it later, I need to get a website deployed by COB today
<0> also need to pick a topic to talk about at a usergroup meeting next week
<2> Zeros: :)
<0> got an hour to talk and no idea what I should discuss :P
<2> Zeros: how about IE compatibility
<2> heh
<0> oh
<2> whats the usergroup for?
<0> that might be fun
<0> well its a coldfusion usergroup, but we talk about all kinds of things. Most of the people that come are government employees or are from big companies (NIST etc.)
<2> oh, its like a real convention?
<2> heh
<2> Zeros: you should talk about IE then :P
<2> get the word out
<0> think I just might, as government contractors we end up supporting IE wether we like it or not :P
<0> thanks hax
<2> Zeros: the big issue is that those kind of contractors end up designing for IE
<2> Zeros: so even if its not a big deal now, it becomes a big deal when the inevitable switch happens
<0> I know, a lot of them don't have the best grasp of web standards either. I was thinking about talking about web standards, theory and practice in applications
<3> how badly does <script> </script> have to be in the <head> </head> ?
<0> which would work really well in a discussion about IE really
<0> so score!
<2> Zeros: yeah
<2> Zeros: i've also got a paper i wrote for college about that
<2> Zeros: that you could use
<0> cool
<0> :)
<2> lemme dig that up
<4> mindwarping, not at all
<4> <style> has to be in the header, not <script>
<4> tho personally I prefer all-external javascript files
<3> Zeros, haha.. i used to be on a mailing list that wasn't affililated with the school, but all the kids would use it to get their homework done.. and the prof would watch the mailing list because he knew about this (he has been in the mailing list way before the kids even knew about the program he was showing them)... and he'd bust the kids for plagarism.. if they didn't change the code up enough from what was sent to
<3> them.
<3> _W_, rad thanks alot for the answer
<2> mindwarping: what an ***
<3> hax, i thought it was funny
<3> t
<3> i hate when i do that
<5> hax: why?
<2> heh
<5> hax: if I was a teacher, I'd want my students doing their owner work; not blindly regurgitating someone else's
<2> bewest: because i support cheating in educational institutions
<5> then you support regurgitating?
<2> no
<3> i support looking at someones code and changing it around for your own purposes... that takes learning
<3> but if these kids didn't have enough of that.. he'd bust'em
<2> bewest: the argument that plagiarism is a problem is because cheating, plagiarism, whatever is like a cancer in the educational institution
<6> It's also a sure way of picking up bad habits ...
<2> bewest: it devalues the entire institution if it goes on
<5> the problem with that kind of cheating is that there is zero learning going on... copy-paste is simply regurgitating without understanding
<2> bewest: and i'm in favor of devaluing educational institutions
<5> has nothing to do with the value of an institution
<2> then why prevent it?
<0> mindwarping, haha nice
<3> yea, Zeros better b e on the lookout!!
<3> :P
<5> hax: because there's no learning going on...
<0> what makes you think I'm plagiarizing code or work from a mailing list mindwarping ? :P
<3> i think later on he told the kids that he was apart of the list and that they should use it to learn, not try and cheat.
<3> Zeros, hax is gonna send you his paper... i'm just bull****ting with you.. i liked that story and it seemed relevant i thought i'd mention it here
<2> bewest: so?
<0> mindwarping, oh :P
<5> hax: I'm just confused how a teacher trying to help students learn makes him an *** :-)
<3> if your prof was here lurking.. he'd try and bust you i bet if he knew who you were :)
<5> mindwarping: I don't think Zeros has any professors atm
<5> :-)
<2> bewest: because it supports the system
<3> ah.. okay i'm confused then
<2> bewest: the fact that he's a teacher i take exception to
<5> secondly Zeros isn't doing this for a grade or claiming anything as his own work
<3> cheating == activism
<2> mindwarping: exactly
<3> i was just kidding around guys
<2> i'm not
<2> heh
<0> the admin person we have in the office here took a typing course where they used these old typewriters that used a buffer mindwarping, so you could print a document over and over with it. She said these three girls used to each do one ***ignment and print it three times in cl***
<7> i will say that a large part of programming is looking at other similar solutions
<7> open source stuff, of course
<0> which ****s when you have the same typo on all three of them :P
<3> heh nice
<2> bewest: the point is that we shouldn't support educational institutions, and teachers shouldn't be teaching
<5> heh
<2> bewest: but because we still require the piece of paper at the end to compete in our marketplace... we should strive to devalue that paper as much as possible for everyone
<2> bewest: until it's just laughed at as irrelevant and we go back to trade-skill hiring
<3> haxtivist!
<2> i'm just sayinbg
<6> hax: I quite agree. The less people who actually learn anything, the better - atleast for my business.
<3> go hax.. i support you
<2> *saying
<8> In the situation of suspected plagiarism, I still vote for a code-walkthrough as the introductory step.
<2> Windrose: indeed, and if the 'degree' is devalued... your superiour skill gets hired over someone who bull****ted his way through a hire degree than you bothered to do
<8> Namely, take 'em aside, and have them explain a sampling of both the suspect and non-suspect code.
<3> how do you think the kid would respond?
<3> you think he'd sweat? and then see what happens?
<6> hax: of course, after about 50 years we won't have a single competent person left.
<2> Windrose: thats not true
<8> mindwarping: If the kid understood what he stole such that he could explain it, I would claim the suspicion would be unfounded.
<2> Windrose: you're competent, i'm competent, and neither of us learned what we know from school
<3> i see Tresnar_
<9> lol
<0> I agree with hax that the dependancy on paper and tests to show a person's skill is flawed, but I think higher level education is very important, especially studying things that don't relate to your career at all
<6> hax: oddly enough ... I did ;)
<8> For most coursework, there are a limited number of valid solutions, ignoring basic issues of commenting, variable naming, etc.
<2> Windrose: what were the odds of that :P
<6> hax: good. That's what /schools are for/.
<8> [I'll also qualify that as saying "Bachelor's-level"]
<2> Windrose: oh wait, you didn't go to school in america
<2> Windrose: it's a different game entirely
<0> Tresnar_, its not about the course work though, its about understanding
<6> hax: of course not. Do I look quite that naive? ;)
<5> hax: don't throw the baby out with the bathwater :-)
<2> Windrose: heh
<2> bewest: fair enough
<8> Zeros: Hence confronting them on the topic of understanding.
<0> anyone can write code, its takes more skill to understand _why_ you write a line of code
<5> hax: just because you dislike some aspects of education, doesn't mean its flawed from the ground up
<2> bewest: maybe what i should be pushing for is a transition to like 10 years of work... then 4 years of education... then more work
<8> I would say if they can't explain the code they wrote "normally", there are still problems.
<5> hax: that's like hating html because people use <table>... and claiming that html should be thrown out entirely
<8> Even if it was mis-detected as plagiarism, the end result [more direct 1:1 intervention] is the same.
<2> bewest: there's very little that can't be learned outside of an educational institution
<2> bewest: and to have it be mandatory is infuriating
<6> hax: to be honest, I've never run across anyone without a university education - not necessarily a /degree/ mind - who understood theory.
<9> good point
<5> hax: what do you mean mandatory
<2> bewest: in the sense that you have no value if you haven't done it
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