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Comments:
<Rodietze> slavik Toma- uhm ok sorry ..
<koharski> I accidentally installed some dapper gcc packages (libstdc++6) on breezy and it broke some stuff :(
<Protocol1> i was trying to get it to extract to my /opt directory
<tritium> koharski: yes, packages can be downgraded, but it'll require some effort
<Protocol1> know a command for that
<koharski> ?
<koharski> maybe I should just run dapper
<slavik> Protocol1: man tar
<that_weasel> sethk: you can certainly squeeze better performance out of an LFS install than a "small" ubuntu install
<sethk> that_weasel, no, you can't. why do you believe that you can?
<that_weasel> sethk: enough to qualify as significant
<sethk> that_weasel, no, I don't agree.
<owner> you could just compile your own kernel in ubuntu
<adriyel> that_weasel, or anything that isn't precompiled, or compiled for a higher/newer architecture
<owner> thats most of the performance increase
<wilmer_> HOLA}
<Protocol1> that just gives me info about tar
<frykshon> how do i tell sudo to give me admin privileges?
<Rodietze> slavik I mean koharski is rite, I needed to downgrade to ubuntu hoary, coz newer packages don't install if I have older ones.. it is pure hell
<adriyel> Arch Linux, Slackware, Gentoo, Vidalinux, RPath, all provide optimized distributions
<that_weasel> sethk: because i do it all the time...i spent quite a bit of time benchmarking with various flavors of builds to make sure i wasn't wasting my time
<adriyel> mind you there are detriments to using anything, so don't ***ume its a holy grail
<sethk> that_weasel, doesn't match my results
<Protocol1> frykshon: sudo su
<adriyel> I'm compiling all my apps by portage right now, sooo...
<Toma-> maybe ill whack slack on it
<sethk> that_weasel, running the same processes, with the same hardware, I get the same results. which is what you would expect
<pahpeh_cakep> #semarang
<that_weasel> sethk: i'm not some Gentoo -099 idiot...
<frykshon> thank you
<adriyel> neither am I
<Protocol1> yup
<sethk> that_weasel, I didn't say that you are. I did not intend to be insulting
<koharski> do you guys think I shoud run dapper? It would be nice to have updated packages
<sethk> that_weasel, but unless things are running that should not be, why would the perfomance be any better?
<owner> koharski do you have an ati card
<Toma-> koharski, nope
<koharski> no, nvidia
<adriyel> nvidia, well my friend, you're in luck! :P
<owner> ati users should stay away from dapper unless ati release better drivers
<owner> that support new kernel and xorg
<Ben__> how do i get a new kernel? i want to get the 686 smp kernel
<that_weasel> sethk: if you know your hardware, and have a specific purpose for it, those little optimizatins make all the difference in the world
<adriyel> owner, correction, Linux users should stay away from ATI
<Ben__> sude apt-get ??????????????????????????
<owner> adriyel lol
<adriyel> owner, 6800GT owner and proud
<Ben__> i have a 6800gt also
<adriyel> Ben__, glorious vid card, ain't it?
<Toma-> koharski, downlaod the old version deb's, and run "sudo dpkg -i --force-downgrade gcc.deb"
<Ben__> yes
<slavik> owner: ati have drivers for xorg 7.0
<adriyel> wish I had a 7 series sometimes though
<Ben__> i enjoy it very much
<adriyel> usually when I am laying on the heavy anti-aliasing
<koharski> thansk toma, i'll give that a shot
<sethk> that_weasel, my tests don't show that. as I said, with the same processes running, I see the same performance.
<adriyel> Need for Speed: Most Wanted is wicked with this card
<Ben__> i just installed ubuntu today i also haev windows im just seeing how i like ubuntu
<that_weasel> sethk: well, some optimizations are good and bad and some are both depending on your hardware....if you for example build a system for a laptop with a 4200 rpm drive, optimize for binary size all the time...
<Ben__> and if i can get games running well on it
<adriyel> Ben__, I dual-boot Windows and Linux
<that_weasel> sethk: because the overhead of large binaries hurt more than anything else....
<adriyel> I can run almost all of my games in Linux
<Ben__> with good performance?
<adriyel> but for that extra performance oomph, until Linux's NVidia drivers get better, I keep windows on the side
<Ben__> equivalent or better than windows?
<that_weasel> sethk: strip debug info out always helps...
<adriyel> good performance? yeah
<adriyel> great? no
<adriyel> I can run Quake4 no probs on Linux
<Ben__> how is it comparable to windows?
<adriyel> but I can't crank the detail quite as muhc
<sethk> that_weasel, helps load time, yes. But nothing more than load time.
<Toma-> Ben__, i can run gta3 in linux, but not in windows thanks to crappy performance
<adriyel> Ben__, highly dependent upon whether its a Linux native, or cedega'd game
<Ben__> i see
<adriyel> I've been able to get steam, HL2, CS:S running in Cedega
<Toma-> ubotu, tell Ben__ about cedega
<Ben__> i dont have any linux native games
<Ben__> but i do know of cedega
<adriyel> I had to pare down the graphical settings down one notch, but then it ran just like it did
<adriyel> Ben__, Quake 4 and Doom3 have linux natives
<Eds> Cedega is worth every penny
<that_weasel> sethk: on older systems, and even newer systems that load time can make the difference between a system that looks like it runs slow and one that runs ok, or good
<adriyel> Cedega is worth the 5 dollar a month subscription if you're a Linux user/gamer like myself
<Toma-> Ben__, you can see a list of highly supported and not so support games there... also, wine has had alot of success running WoW. also, google "loki installers"
<slavik> Ben__: doom 3, quake 4, ut2k4 can be installed natively
<Rodietze> *** I have all my packages that i installed on Hoary in a CD and now I have Breezy, but when trying to install it on breezy I have several errors, what can I do once I have no internet connection to download the same packages for breezy?
<sethk> that_weasel, I tend to have no load overhead except at startup. Probably because of the type of work I do.
<adriyel> Ben__, on a side note, although 3d performance is slightly worse on Linux (thanks to NVidia ignoring it until recently), your load times tend to be better, don't know why
<Ben__> the games i play at the moment inclue steam games, guild wars, diablo 2, call of duty 2, and im thinking about getting quake 4
<Boooooching> What is X11?
<Eds> in fact, if I recall correctly, Cedega wont let you install Q3 and games that can be played nativly through it
<bobbyd> adriyel, the Nividia drivers are a unified model, so they're the same for windows and linux
<adriyel> call of duty 2 might be a little rough, the rest of them should be fine
<slavik> Boooooching: x11 is the underlying engine for displaying graphics ...
<adriyel> bobbyd, unified model, and level of optimization are two different things
<bobbyd> Ben__, check the cedega site for the status of those games
<Boooooching> So how do I tell if it is installed?
<that_weasel> sethk: on older systems (like the one that other person was talkiing about) they are likely use the page file alot, keeping binary size down mean keeping page file thrashing down too
<adriyel> the drivers for Windows are much more mature, optimized
<slavik> Boooooching: are you using kde or gnome?
<adriyel> don't kid yourself
<Boooooching> Gnome.
<Ben__> yeah my friend tried steam games through cedega
<bobbyd> adriyel, I've done some tests on my own code and the differences are very small
<slavik> Boooooching: it's installed ... and is even doing something, too. :)
<Boooooching> Well, mplayer says it isn't :(
<Ben__> he said that he got lower fps, higher ping, and it crashed frequently
<adriyel> bobbyd, your code, and a production level recent DirectX or OpenGL game are two different things
<adriyel> start using pixel shaders, then we'll talk
<Protocol1> im havinbg the browser download the file to the directory I want
<Boooooching> I download mplayer, unpack it, ect..type ./configure --enable-gui it says something about X11
<adriyel> SM 3.0 croaks and dies on NVidia drivers for Linux
<bobbyd> adriyel, I'm technical lead for a games company
<slavik> Boooooching: what exactly?
<Boooooching> Hold on.
<Protocol1> dont know the commands to move it there thats why
<Protocol1> heh
<adriyel> bobbyd, then what is your explanation for the performance difference?
<slavik> adriyel: use ati? ^^
<bobbyd> adriyel, my code is a $20 million game based on UE3
<XiCillin> is there a defrag for linux?
<that_weasel> sethk: on newer systems you can you can get big performance gains from optimizing for your architecture...
<bobbyd> adriyel, it's not that significant
<slavik> bobbyd: so your code isn't really existant :P
<Rodietze> *** I have all my packages that i installed on Hoary in a CD and now I have Breezy, but when trying to install it on breezy I have several errors, what can I do once I have no internet connection to download the same packages for breezy?
<Boooooching> slavik, Error: X11 support required for GUI compilation
<adriyel> why is my install of Linux faster than windows at everything but games? especially if the 3d drivers are of the same codebase?
<adriyel> bobbyd, UE3 fascinates me. lemme guess, Gears of War?
<slavik> wtf?
<bobbyd> slavik, you need a lot more than Ue3 to make our game :)
<bobbyd> adnans, GoW is an Epic game
<slavik> bobbyd: ue3 is still in devel from what I know ...
<adriyel> hmm
<adriyel> whats the game?
<adriyel> slavik, not really.
<bobbyd> slavik, indeed it is
<adriyel> well
<that_weasel> sethk: especially with processor intensive programs
<adriyel> its in dev
<adriyel> but its also available to devs
<bobbyd> slavik, and we licence it
<slavik> bobbyd: you looking for interns?
<adriyel> but Epic licenses it out to companies wishing to make games
<slavik> bobbyd: you work for epic?
<adnans> ? :)
<adriyel> Rainbow 6: Raven Shield is a UE2 game
<bobbyd> slavik, no, we licence the engine from them
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