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Comments:
<0> nice, thanks duck-- i thought you didnt get that msg 10 mins ago lol
<1> Any f1 freaks in here?
<2> from pictures i retain over 90% video in the 80's book reading with pictures to explain concepts in 90 hands on like 95 % text reading was like 33%
<3> the_dude, you don't learn experience from anything but doing, that's different than just plain learning
<4> SuseUX: not don't get totally off-topic please .. lol
<0> does anyone know if there are any public logs of this chat or would they take up too much space ;-)
<2> it drives me nutz tooo
<3> warrior520, probably too much space, but I think you can take logs locally
<5> warrior520: there are... you search for spin and suse you will prolly find them
<0> duck--: i get a COMING SOON on www.typosphere.org
<2> i visualize everything if i can see code and what it does I understand i cant read and grasp a concept without seeing what irt does
<1> yaloki: Oh damn #f1 sent me here :-)
<3> warrior520, click on the Trac link
<0> nothing is coming up its blank duck--
<4> raden: just hack some CSS and press F5 in your browser, you'll see what it does
<3> raden, i have the same issue with programming, but once I know it
<3> warrior520, http://www.typosphere.org/trac/
<4> look at some code, do the same, look at what it does, expand from there
<2> yaloki, if i understood and CSS fundamentals i would bro thats how i learn PHP
<3> warrior520, free, nice blog.
<0> duck--: sorry i got it now, that was really weird... I had the firefox search dialog open on the bottom, when i finally close it the page turned from white to what it should be
<5> http://www.irclogs.ws/
<6> I think the main thing is motivation. When I'm curious and eager to know how to do something, I find it very easy to learn.
<3> warrior520, spooky? ;)
<4> some sources are better than others for learning though
<3> _clem, easy to learn when adequate documentation exists
<4> I've evaluated the "head first design patterns" book from O'Reilly, excellent read, very interesting approach
<3> inadequate docs can frustrate even the most eager learners
<3> yaloki, I feel the same way!
<4> lots of pictures, examples, exercices
<7> url?
<0> duck--: it is a lil bit isn't it ;-) im still trying to get it to let me sign up, im not getting anywhere with typo
<2> yaloki, like adobe cl***room in a book series **** i learned photo shoot to a very comfortable level in 1 day
<3> yaloki, they attack you from all different angles
<6> duck : that's the thing about open source technologies, they're usually very well documented cause a lot of people use them.
<4> and they even explain why they organize the book that way, how it works in your brain ;)
<4> and very, very easy reading, you can actually grasp it just by reading in your bed before sleeping
<3> warrior520, ??? it's a server you download and run...
<0> duck--: ohh im an idiot, there it is the download
<4> which I can't say about a lot of technical books
<6> in my company we use stuff like sybase, solaris, openfusion and it's a pain in the *** to gain competence on it....
<2> yaloki, ill check that out sometime
<2> well guys i gotrta run for 10 min
<0> duck--: suffice to say I didnt read cause im looking at 20 different pages ;-)
<3> warrior520, you might need some mysql experience to run it though, there may be some better options for you
<4> they have a few other books in that "head first" series
<4> I know there's a "head first java" too
<0> duck--: true, thanks for the heads up, ill check it out tonight
<3> _clem, there are still open-source things lacking documentation. Some of the lack is the statement "We ***ume you already know this, that, and the other thing"
<3> warrior520, it comes with its' own webserver (ruby's webserver, WEBrick)
<4> I was discussing with Josette from O'Reilly at FOSDEM 2005 (I'm organizer, she's marketing director for O'Reilly Europe, and always present at FOSDEM for selling books - oh, and they're a big sponsor too :)), she gave me that head-first book
<4> had a quick look and I said: "I wouldn't buy that"
<8> buy what?
<4> she asked why, I said "looks like a "for dummies" book"
<3> yaloki, i used that in my java cl*** this year, excellent
<4> snowbird: head first software patterns from O'Reilly
<6> duck : right, but you can always find people to talk to ... look here on IRC, everybody uses open source stuff and a lot of people just come here on freenodes just to help others.
<3> yaloki, well, the head-first java one i did
<4> then she gave me the book and asked me to tell her what I think about it after reading it
<4> and I really, really loved it, I would recommend those to anyone
<7> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfdesignpat/
<6> duck : if I want help on sybase or openfusion do you think I can ask people on IRC ? hell no :)
<4> duck--: yeah.. I didn't read the head first java, but it's the same concept
<7> she's cute
<3> _clem, you can find people to talk to...at the right time :) I'm impatient, but I do appreciate the knowledgable folks.
<4> fun to read, easy reading, very interesting approach
<3> the_dude, who is?
<4> I would have given the book a 10/10 if it included Dependency Injection ;D
<0> hell yeah she's cute man
<3> yaloki, they sorta lose some of their zest as they go through the java book, but by halfway through it's more of a reference for me than anything
<3> yaloki, but for those without programming experience it could get boooooooooooring. now if they only came out with a ruby one with more advanced concepts
<4> for more or less plain Java the only book I have is J2EE Design Patterns, also O'Reilly, also a very good one, but a more cl***ical approach
<4> latest ones I bought is "Domain Driven Design" by Evans, very hyped one, reading it right now, very interesting
<4> and "professional java development with spring", "pro spring" and "spring - developer's notebook" (the latter is not that good)
<6> Think in Java is good as well.
<3> i'm hoping ruby on rails succeeds java
<4> duck--: geez, now you're up for a flamewar
<3> a friend of mine is a programmer at TDS and I guess it's big news there
<3> yaloki, hehe
<6> duck : why ? it's good to have both...
<4> RoR = simple tool for simple tasks, Java = complex tool for complex tasks
<3> yaloki, ruby on rails is still not as mature as java, though
<4> and not as capable, by a very large margin
<3> yaloki, that's nonsense
<4> and Java for webapps is very complex, has a steep learning curve
<3> yaloki, it scales
<4> duck--: if you go beyond just doing some database stuff, it's not as capable
<3> and simplicity does not equate inferiority
<3> yaloki, such as?
<4> forget about stupid CRUD webapps
<6> I don't know RoR myself.. (yet :)). I use Java everyday and the main problem with it is that it's not open source.
<9> hehe.. cl***ic yaloki.. I wish someone would say that every weekend :)
<4> RoR is probably one of the best tools atm for stupid webapps
<7> :-\
<5> _clem: soooon
<4> I'm not saying RoR ****s
<4> it's pretty nice
<4> but it's for a certain type of application
<7> playtime
<7> bbl
<5> RoR is young, and it will take time is what yaloki is saying
<3> _clem, learning ruby right now, Rails to follow. I've seen one java programming instructor convert to that party and he knows many
<6> sPIN : hopefully... maybe I'm just being doubtful..
<4> no, I'm saying it's not targetted at being what Java is
<0> sPiN: that weblog page only has a few days in october logged, I'm going to keep looking, I think one that is pretty complete at least for freenode would be an invaluble resource
<3> sPiN, yep, I was saying it was not as mature as java yet.
<5> after hearing johnathan schwartz last few interviews i think it will be soon
<3> yaloki, depends on what you mean.
<4> Java is an all-encomp***ing platform, for webapps, GUI apps, remoting, clustering, legacy integration, web services, heavy server-side stuff
<4> as I said, it's a complex platform for complex tasks
<6> very modular though yaloki.. it can stay simple for simple needs.
<4> sorry but "RoR replacing Java" is totally off target
<6> I agree on that.
<3> yaloki, they'll grow and eventually be similar
<4> _clem: more or less, though using Java for webapps.. well... extremely powerful but a steepy learning curve compared to RoR or PHP
<3> yaloki, RoR is growing so fast though, like you've pointed out, because of the unique area it is very strong in
<4> yeah
<4> it's good for that kind of scenario
<4> ok, want examples ? ;)
<3> but I can see it branching out more and more
<6> yaloki : oh yes... unless your webapps rely on a set of backend apps.
<4> what's the remoting technology of Ruby/RoR ?
<4> :)
<3> and from my hard-core java friend at TDS talking about it, I can see some companies are thinking the same
<3> yaloki, I can't say I know, tbh
<4> there's none
<3> yaloki, my understanding is still rather superficial
<10> xml-rpc ?
<4> how do you cluster RoR apps ? I mean, with shared session data ?
<3> yaloki, how long did it take java to be capable of doing that?
<3> yaloki, just wondering.
<4> bill-barriere: yeah, SOAP/XML-RPC would count for almost any technology, but it's dead slow, totally unrealistic for high- or decent-performance remoting
<6> duck : companies, especially big ones are very conservative. They use Java for everything.... never even heard of php for their intranet in my company :)
<4> RMI was in quite early for Java
<3> _clem, well TDS is pretty large and they're talking about it
<4> if Ruby/RoR tries to achieve the same scope and richness as the Java platform, it will die, plain simple
<3> yaloki, but it has taken it this long to grow as complex and diverse as it is
<6> duck : I'm just making a generality here.
<3> yaloki, but I agree, and I support this statement, that some languages are better-suited for certain tasks
<4> yes and no
<4> some languages make it possible to do certain things with less effort
<4> e.g. Python, Ruby
<3> yaloki, yes, they are better-suited
<3> faster at it, easier to code it, etc
<3> better-suited is subjective
<4> no, because for larger scenarios, their advantages become shortcomings
<3> it can encomp*** lots of things
<4> let me pick Python as an example, it's the same story
<10> ho well long life c++
<4> you can do a lot of stuff much easier as with Java, type a lot less, that's very nice
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