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Comments:
<yaloki> apokryphos: ah, ok
<blahdeblah> alan`: Of course! You're in #suse, aren't you? ;-)
<yaloki> apokryphos: I thought you meant on SUSE, for building packages or so
<apokryphos> oh, no
<NickGarvey> blahdeblah: nothing had benchmark
<alan`> i'm thinking abuot switching over to OpenSuse from an Net BSD computer, yeah but i mean because Net BSD won't install anything, and the packages they made doesn't work
<alan`> its annoying getting errors then fixing them and not beign able to do anythning about it
<blahdeblah> alan`: Debian might be a more familiar feel for you.
<shuffle2> NickGarvey: http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm
<NickGarvey> thank you shuffle2
<blahdeblah> alan`: Certainly Debian's package repository is closer to BSD ports than SUSE.
<frb-work> alan`: what's the computer for?
<frb-work> blahdeblah: not even close
<blahdeblah> alan`: (i.e. more choices)
<frb-work> if you love ports, get gentoo
<frb-work> if you want a working machine without work, use suse
<yaloki> s/ports/pain/
<chrisag> hey Suse can do some things i dislike too
<apokryphos> yaloki: do you know, by the way, is there any way to solve build (compile) dependencies of a package without (i) using apt, or (ii) recreating a whole 'nother system with y2pmbuild?
<canyouscore> hows 10.1
<blahdeblah> alan`: frb-work is right about gentoo being closer still. Personally, i hate being a build engineer every time i want to install something. ;-)
<apokryphos> canyouscore: excellent
<chrisag> like the way they set up printers so it can't use default printer toolboxes.... or their samba won't add users/p***words.
<frb-work> I was a build engineer, it pissed me off
<apokryphos> but not released official yet :P
<chrisag> canyouscore: It's pretty solid
<chrisag> their update system still ****s imho.
<yaloki> apokryphos: I don't see what you mean
<canyouscore> I try it this weekend
<yaloki> apokryphos: build/compile dependencies ?
<alan`> the computer is for networking
<alan`> like a file server and a firewall
<blahdeblah> chrisag: Could you elaborate on "update system still ****s"?
<alan`> and somewhere to chat on SSH whereever i am
<frb-work> I use suse on my fileserver, and my firewall
<apokryphos> yaloki: i.e. to compile a given package from source, I'd need perhaps some other packages already installed -- like certain -devel packs etc (build depends)
<alan`> ok cool, i should just do that
<frb-work> susefirewall2 makes many things easy to manage
<blahdeblah> alan`: SUSE should work. I prefer Debian for my personal firewalls. :-)
<yaloki> apokryphos: right
<chrisag> blahdeblah: Half the time it doesn't work... i.e. i'll get random faults or errors that don't exist... my favorite is 'there is already and installation in progress'
<yaloki> apokryphos: no, there's nothing for that
<sarnold> chrisag: with which rc?
<chrisag> After killing EVERY daemon that's being used by it
<chrisag> latest from factory
<apokryphos> dang
<chrisag> so RC3+whatever updates.
<blahdeblah> frb-work, alan`: Shorewall is a real man's firewall. ;-)
<frb-work> meh
<yaloki> s/Shorewall/iptables/
<blahdeblah> chrisag: Now you're scaring me.
<frb-work> my firewall blocks outside traffic, and transparently makes the intranet use frox and squid
<yaloki> chrisag: but it's been said that RC4 and RC5 got a lot of bugfixes on zypp/zmd
<blahdeblah> yaloki: Shorewall is just a front end to iptables that saves you 27 syntax errors every time you change your iptables script. :-)
<frb-work> I have dhcp linked to ddns on that server, and I'm going to see if I can link ddns to wins
<sarnold> chrisag: that's a bit surprising; rc4 and rc5 got significant fixes, but i would have expected those to be in factory ...
<yaloki> blahdeblah: nah, shorewall ****s, just do some shell scripting and iptables flies
<chrisag> yaloki: They got some... but their databse system still takes forever and 100% CPU... also it still has database problems...
<yaloki> sarnold: not necessarely
<chrisag> so I've been using smart.
<HighNeko> What's seeds 0 (4473) mean? -- http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc175&image=08695_screenshot.jpg
<yaloki> blahdeblah: and it's ncurses, not curses
<yaloki> :D
<blahdeblah> yaloki: Heresy! Shorewall is a divine gift! :-)
<frb-work> susefirewall2 is just some shell scripts with iptables too
<yaloki> heresy is good
<alan`> suse is actually really good for graphics, extremely good
<alan`> its better than my windows XP gaming computer
<alan`> soon to be Vista but still
<sarnold> "soon"? :)
<yaloki> lol
<frb-work> msoon
<alan`> yeah
<frb-work> like a new york minute, or a football quarter
<alan`> slackware is just annoying when it crashes
<sarnold> alan`: isn't every os annoying when it crashes, by definition? :)
<yaloki> alan`: save it for later :)
<the_dude> :)
<yaloki> anyhow
<frb-work> I'm friggin hungry
<the_dude> nn
<alan`> yeah everything is but slackware usually dies on me when it crashes
<frb-work> I think what I'll do is get the VPN working, then use it to login and finish my status report for work
<alan`> nd i have to rebuild everything, suse crashed 2ce since i've ever had it and Mac OSX hasn't crashed yet
<blahdeblah> So i'll ask again: is 10.1's Xen and packaging system going to be more stable than 10.0, or should i stick with 10.0 for now?
<the_dude> i'd suggest testing
<alan`> probably go to 10.1
<alan`> thats what i'm doing right now, i'm upgrading remotely
<sarnold> blahdeblah: i'd suggest staying with 10.0 for a few weeks
<blahdeblah> alan`: Production server?
<blahdeblah> Great! /me gets conflicting advice... :-\
<frb-work> the only advice we can give is put 10.1 on a testing server, and try it
<sarnold> blahdeblah: "don't ask the elfs a question; you'll get both yes and no for answers" ? :)
<blahdeblah> sarnold: Exactly.
<chrisag> blahdeblah: the packaging system is the same
<blahdeblah> frb-work: True - not much to lose if i'm starting with a test env.
<chrisag> it's still RPM.
<apokryphos> but we are so wise :P
<blahdeblah> chrisag: No i mean the infrastructure around RPM.
<the_dude> chrisag: no
<alan`> i'm goin, i'll bb in mayb 1/2 an hr, peace
<chrisag> blahdeblah: stable... with some bugs... happens. That's why i'm using smart.
<sarnold> blahdeblah: the fixes for SLES10 will be coming along in the next few weeks, and will make their way to 10.1 updates sooner or later. The resulting system ought to be pretty good.
<chrisag> the_dude: yes. Zypp etc are just WRAPPERS for rpm and way's to keep repositories.
<frb-work> !tell frb http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/suser-guru/rpm/packages/Network/kwlan/src/
<SuSEhelp> frb-work: Okay, will tell upon next speaking. (Sent to 1 person.)
<frb-work> neat
<blahdeblah> chrisag: OES uses Red Carpet, SLES9 uses Yast2 via SSL (so it doesn't cache packages), SUSE 9.3/10.0 use just normal yast; i want something that works on all of them well.
<the_dude> chrisag: true enough
<sarnold> blahdeblah: but any brand new system inevitably brings with it brand new bugs -- and you sound like you'd rather let early adopters find the problems the beta testers didn't :)
<frb-work> now when I login from home the bot will tell me the url I want
<sarnold> frb-work: hehehe
<chrisag> blahdeblah: you can use apt and YUM I believe now.
<the_dude> and smart
<blahdeblah> sarnold: I can afford a bit of time, but i don't want to be constantly fighting the package manager.
<blahdeblah> chrisag: For OES & SLES as well?
<sarnold> blahdeblah: completely agreed.
<sarnold> blahdeblah: well, the idea behind Zypp was to provide a much nicer, more integrated, single updater :)
<blahdeblah> !Zypp
<sarnold> blahdeblah: i'm sure that was the reasoning behind red carpet, too....
<sarnold> blahdeblah: "zypp" is the name of the new package management infrastructure
<blahdeblah> Aargh!
<the_dude> red carpet
<blahdeblah> !zypp
<the_dude> i kinda liked red carpet
<apokryphos> rug
<blahdeblah> the_dude: Past tense?
<shuffle2> !google zypp
<SuSEhelp> shuffle2: ZYPP Contact at: Zypp.Com. Sites: Circle Of Shadows | Kristian | Halloween | QC-Cams. Let me know that I've done wrong When I've known this all along ...www.zypp.com/ - 6k - See http://www.google.com/search?q=zypp
<the_dude> i've not used it in awhile
<sarnold> SuSEhelp: zypp is the new SuSE package management system in 10.1, SLES10, SLED10
<blahdeblah> the_dude: You made it sound like it was dead...
<the_dude> don't know now
<the_dude> sarnold: it available for 10.1?
<sarnold> blahdeblah: it mostly is. the red carpet front end has been converted to using the zypp backend
<blahdeblah> sarnold: So it's going to be pushed into SLES & SLED?
<sarnold> the_dude: yeah; it's the thing behind the wheel when you install or update packages through yast
<the_dude> rug install x
<sarnold> blahdeblah: SLE10 yes; SLES 9 is probably never going to get it.
<shuffle2> FATAL: Bungled squid.conf line 1874: http_access allow localnet
<blahdeblah> sarnold: OK - looks like i need to learn about zypp.
<shuffle2> hrm looks like frb is confusing me
<blahdeblah> Thanks for the advice, folks.
<sarnold> blahdeblah: me too :)
<shuffle2> what does suse have in place of pico?
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