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Comments:
<Tourinho> hello there.. is there a web site were I can found information about enterprises using suse and some statistics data? its for a research, thanks :)
<kaiSVK> i-nZ, nice ... finally ... even though I dont understand policy of Sun ...
<frb-work> wad: where 600 is in seconds, and is less than your ISP's timeout
<kaiSVK> i-nZ, when they made solaris open ... couldnt they make JRE open source as well ...
<apokryphos> it must be the hard-disk space taken up that scares mirrors, I guess
<frb-work> wad: then make sure to enable keepalive in ssh
<wad> Okay, so that's on the box at work (local), or the one at home?
<apokryphos> (from having dvds)
<fsu> cenuij: http://pastebin.com/711711 <- there is couple messages from zmd log.
<cenuij> Tourinho: i guess the best place to look would be novell.com
<frb-work> wad: the one initiating the tunnel
<wad> ok
<sarnold> wad: ssh's ServerAliveInterval may do what you want
<kaiSVK> i-nZ, I know ... life is not fairyt ale :)
<wad> Okay, cool.
<frb-work> ok, my hour of goofing off and helping people is done, time to get busy with real work
<sarnold> wad: set the interval to something less than your NAT system's expiry..
<wad> :)
<i-nZ> what is the gnome version?
<i-nZ> 2.12 or 2.14?
<cenuij> fsu: im not sure whats going on there, im no C# dev
<kaiSVK> 2.12 :/
<frb-work> who cares? <duck>
<cenuij> fsu: check you have mono installed
<fsu> ok. I'll do that
<Tourinho> cenuij I didnt found statistcs information there :( thanks
<i-nZ> where is the official changelog
<i-nZ> !changelog
<frb-work> http://tinyurl.com/ghdft
<tonz> does anyone know when kde 3.5.2 will be out for suse 10.1?
<i-nZ> I just want to know if ipw-firmware is on the CDs and which is the shipped GNOME version
<tonz> no one? educated guess
<tonz> ?
<cenuij> "Many exhibitors dressed women like video game heroines and there was a group of women wearing ***y nurses' outfits." there's just not enough of that kind of behaviour ;)
<apokryphos> tonz: 3.5.3 will probably be available in suse rpms on release date, I'd imagine
<benJIman|tov> i-nZ: ipw-firmware might be on the addon cd i'm not sure
<benJIman|tov> shipped gnome version is 2.12 but who would care about gnome
<tonz> apokryphos: is there some schedule?
<i-nZ> cause I want to do a net install and can do it only over wifi (ipw2200 here)
<apokryphos> tonz: for kde 3.5.3? Yes. developer.kde.org
<benJIman|tov> you won't be able todo it over wifi
<tonz> apokryphos: thanks ;)
<i-nZ> benJIman|tov: the last time i did :)
<kaiSVK> benJIman|tov, why everyone blames gnome ?
<i-nZ> benJIman|tov: i think i installed the firmware and stuff myself
<benJIman|tov> i-nZ: well you could do that
<tonz> may, 23rd :) nice
<i-nZ> kaiSVK: cause everyone are nerds
<i-nZ> :P
<i-nZ> is there a torrent for the dvd?
<cenuij> no
<ponto_> Does Suse 10.1 support the Atheros WIFI cards? I've read stuff that indicates that the cards are not supported anymore.
<apokryphos> someone should make one
<benJIman|tov> ponto_: novell won't be shipping those drivers any more
<benJIman|tov> ponto_: they are not gpl
<ponto_> benJIman|tov: Then 10.1 is useless for me?
<i-nZ> kaiSVK: bitch
<benJIman|tov> ponto_: you could get another wireless card, or use a third party driver package
<i-nZ> same **** :)
<benJIman|tov> ponto_: non-gpl kernel modules violate kernel developers' copyright
<kaiSVK> i-nZ, thanx :) I love u too :D
<kaiSVK> Atheros cards are not supported ? ****
<benJIman|tov> the driver is being re-written so the kernel module can be gpled I think, but it needs the new wireless framework which will only be in future kernels
<ponto_> benJIman|tov: do you know of a third party driver package for 10.1?
<benJIman|tov> not yet
<benJIman|tov> not sure how many people want to encourage non-gpled drivers
<frb-work> I'm using madwifi on 10.1 just fine
<frb-work> works hella better than the prism2.5 I had
<benJIman|tov> the madwifi package for 10.1 doesn't have atheros support
<benJIman|tov> or at least it didn't
<frb-work> the madwifi package has the tools, but not the drivers
<frb-work> so I downloaded it and compile it myself
<tonz> ****, i'hoped my atheos will work again with 10.1
<benJIman|tov> frb-work: where did you get the driver from? self compiled or is there a kpm somewhere?
<benJIman|tov> kmp
<frb-work> benJIman|tov: self-compile from teh madwifi homesite
<anacharsis> ok, just so I will not worry that I will be reinstalling 10.0 after I can't get wireless under 10.1, does 10.1 have the ipw2200 module? Please someone tell me it works
<benJIman|tov> not sure if that is included
<benJIman|tov> more than one were dropped
<benJIman|tov> I think ipw is still there you might need firmware though
<frb-work> I might make a madwifi src.rpm if I get bored
<ponto_> All of our Thinkpad notebooks are useless with 10.1. I guess they will drop suse here.
<anacharsis> should be included on the non-gpl cd though no?
<frb-work> ponto_: 10.1 works fine on my thinkpad
<frb-work> actually works better than any suse I've ever used, Fn-F4 even works for suspend-to-ram
<sarnold> frb-work: thinkpads offer three or four different kinds of nics
<kaiSVK> dont novell developers use ThinkPads ?
<ponto_> frb-work: but we all have atheros cards
<frb-work> a nic is not a thinkpad
<anacharsis> frb-work: centrino wireless on your thinkpad?
<frb-work> if you base your choice of laptop on a replacable standard part, you are a fool
<sarnold> ponto_,kaiSVK: believe me, deciding to not ship binary drivers was a very difficult decision for novell management.
<frb-work> I had a prism2.5 wirelss in my thinkpad
<frb-work> now I have a netgear wg511t, which is atheros based
<frb-work> I downloaded the driver, built it, and installed it, and it works fine
<[daemon]> cu later
<sarnold> ponto_,kaiSVK: but with some kernel developers becoming increasingly vocal about their feelings that binary kernel modules infringe upon their copyright (including some novell employees) -- including bringing legal action against distributions that ship binary modules -- Novell decided it would be best for users and the community to not ship anything in such clearly grey legal waters
<frb-work> if you have a problem with the policy, A> petition Lenovo to use a better NIC or B> petition Atheros to open the driver
<frb-work> but DO NOT BLAME SUSE
<benJIman|tov> the atheros driver is being rewritten to not require nongpl kernel module
<ponto_> sarnold: Maybe they made it, but I would have wished that they made clear that suse 10.1 does not support hardware that 10.0 supported.
<benJIman|tov> I think it depends on the new wifi stuff that isn't in the kernel yet though
<i-nZ> of course they should not ship closed source drivers
<benJIman|tov> ponto_: it was announced
<sarnold> ponto_: hrm, i thought that point had been well communicated elsewhere -- clearly not :(
<i-nZ> use windows if you don't like that. period\
<benJIman|tov> ponto_: it has been announced in many places
<benJIman|tov> closed source drivers are evil
<ponto_> I've just read it on osnews.com. It was not part of press announcements I read. as heise.de or pro-linux.de
<i-nZ> it breaks the whole concep of using linux
<benJIman|tov> the kernel is gpl, you don't have the right to distribute non-gpl modules
<MORA> would rather have closed source drivers than hardware that dont work
<benJIman|tov> although possibly it would be legal if you don't automatically load them
<benJIman|tov> MORA: then linux isn't the best kernel for you it's GPLed so you can only have GPLed modules
<MORA> so how did it work in 10.0 ?
<benJIman|tov> it still wasn't legal
<benJIman|tov> you couldn't ship a kernel with the module loaded as part of the gpled kernel automatically
<Hendikins> I love the "stuff the users" attitude (not of Novell in this instance)
<parph> suse had mp3 support at one time, till they took it out due to it being illegal, I imagine they did the same thing with these driver issues\
<frb-work> "stuff the users" ?
<frb-work> explain that to me
<parph> they can change there minds in later releases, and take **** out, if I was novell I would not want to be sued either
<benJIman|tov> parph: that is software patent issues, novell is american company, suse wasn't until novell bought them so they didn't have to worry about software patents in the past
<frb-work> how would a multibillion dollar lawsuit be GOOD FOR USERS?
<sarnold> MORA: it was more a matter of the issue becoming larger in the Kernel community
<benJIman|tov> Hendikins: the users have chosen to use a GPLed system
<frb-work> look beyond your own selfish laptop needs
<parph> people should really think first before blaming the company
<Hendikins> frb-work: Theoretically doing things like dual licensing, which could get around it *shrug*
<parph> novell is playing it exactly right with suse
<frb-work> Hendikins: again, that's the driver author, not Novell
<benJIman|tov> Hendikins: there is no way to dual licence the linux kernel, you would have to get permission from every single person who has ever contributed code to it
<cenuij> vote with your wallet, buy hardware with open source drivers
<benJIman|tov> which even if they're all still alive would be impossible
<sarnold> especially since many _like_ that their code makes binary drivers very difficult to legally distribute
<Hendikins> ...and for the record, I /do/ vote with my wallet.
<ponto_> cenuij: this does not work when the linux market is only 0.001%
<MORA> havent got one piece of hardware with (working) oss drivers yet :(
<sarnold> MORA: really?
<parph> my friend is thinking of buying a mac laptop, to avoid all the headaches of spyware she's always had with xp.
<Hhhhh> hmm, any opinions on 10.1 final?
<daPhoenix> *coughbull****cough*
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