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Comments:
<benJIman> groogs: how any random combination of packages will interact cannot be guaranteed by any package manager
<groogs> aka_druid: ok well, how is the decision made that 10.1 is out as opposed to 10.0?
<kayleigh> SuSEhelp; help YOU
<aka_druid> there are things called planning, QA, goals to be achieved, you dont go where the boat takes you... you take the boat
<kayleigh> damnit
<benJIman> groogs: a fixed set of packages can be tested thorougly
<benJIman> kayleigh: what's the problem?
<groogs> yeah, true enough
<kayleigh> did it change on how u get it to tell you something
<aka_druid> kayleigh, yeah, benJIman will solve it for ya, if its bot related heh
<groogs> but many packages CAN be upgraded without messing each other up. ie, KDE and Apache don't affect each other
<kayleigh> got someone here asking what YOU is
<benJIman> and ISVs want to be able to aim for say suse 10 and know the user will have $program
<aka_druid> SuSEhelp, you
<SuSEhelp> Rumour has it you is for updates to stable, with deltarpms
<groogs> if they do in any way (even if it is caught in QA) something else is seriously broken
<kayleigh> never mine i will google it
<kayleigh> mind*
<benJIman> yast online update
<groogs> and i mean, seriously to the point that the entire architecture of the distro needs to be reconsidered
<benJIman> groogs: and security updates can be aimed at a suse 10, for the packages that suse 10 has
<aka_druid> upgrade are done as need, you dont upgrade everytime there is a new version available
<aka_druid> unless you have no brain
<kayleigh> heh
<groogs> benJIman: right, but theres no reason you couldn't just make a security update "apache-1.3..31-security_update-2" thats aimed at ANY version using that package
<benJIman> groogs: try making patches for any random combination of packages someone has installed and ensuring that they won't break anything for the customer
<sPiN> !testing is <reply> spin testing 1 - 2 - 3
<SuSEhelp> sPiN: Remembering testing..
<kayleigh> spinstah
<sPiN> !forget testing
<SuSEhelp> OK, forgotten : testing
<sPiN> awesome thanks ben :)
<sPiN> hey hey kayleigh
<kayleigh> !weather memphis tennessee
<SuSEhelp> kayleigh: Partly Cloudy 5°C Feels Like 2°C See http://uk.weather.com/search/search?where=memphis+tennessee
<sPiN> !weather 28607
<SuSEhelp> sPiN: Clear 30°F Feels Like 22°F See http://www.weather.com/weather/local/28607
<sPiN> thats funny, you got C and i got F
<groogs> benJIman: to be honest i've never done any packaging work with rpms .. debs (or dpkg, anyways) enforces that two packages can't contain the same file (well, you can divert files, but you have to explicity divert them, which implies that you're aware of it)
<kayleigh> !weather 72364
<SuSEhelp> kayleigh: Clear 37°F Feels Like 33°F See http://www.weather.com/weather/local/72364
<kayleigh> fscking cold:(
<groogs> benJIman: does rpms or yast/yum/whatever not enforce that rule?
<benJIman> groogs: it's ok if you don't have to guarantee to a customer that the php patch you issue won't break their version of apache
<sPiN> kayleigh, since when are you in memphis?
<kayleigh> where ive been since 95 goober
<benJIman> groogs: yes it does, but that's not the point, it's easy to enforce dependencies/conflicts, that does not guarantee that patches will be side affect free, only testing can help stop them
<sPiN> really... for some reason i had you further south west than that
<sPiN> like IL or something
<groogs> benJIman: again, gets back to the "php-4.1-update-3" .. "depends: apache =1.3.31, =2.0.54"
<kayleigh> hahaha nope:P
<kayleigh> memph*** tenn***ee
<coolbeing> benJIman, I updated KDE and now i get this message evry 10 and 20 and 50 seconds: "DISPLAY CHANGED: LCD OFF" ???
<groogs> i'm just saying ,there are ways to make it very very reasonable that there won't be conflicts
<kayleigh> spin honey you do know IL is north of me:P
<benJIman> groogs: you're ***uming that you know it won't affect any other package, you'd end up with a depends list becoming the entire distro
<groogs> yeah its not 100% ..
<sPiN> i was talking in relation to me
<groogs> but i bet its not 100% now
<groogs> unless QA is done on every combination of packages possible
<groogs> for every security patch
<benJIman> groogs: don't you think the security team takes enough time QA testing each bugfix thorougly against each stable version of the distro that is supported allready, without having to test n combinations for each too
<groogs> ahh ok, well, now i see your point
<sPiN> ohh man its been too long since i looked at a US map :P i was waaay off
<kayleigh> spinster lol:P
<coolbeing> Anyone can help? I updated KDE and now i get this message evry 10 and 20 and 50 seconds: "DISPLAY CHANGED: LCD OFF" ???
<groogs> that definately narrows down the possible combinations of different versions.. but you can still have thousands of combinations of packages
<benJIman> coolbeing: did you try running sax2 like I suggested?#
<coolbeing> benJIman, i pressedctrl+alt+f1 before i finishedreading ur message... and then I did not what to do. i typed in login and pas and then sax2 and then it told me something about thati should start from line 2 or something
<benJIman> groogs: yes, and you can change them, and the package dependencies should help avoid conflicts, but the point of the stable freeze is to give a stable target for these things, if you're running a production server you'd stay as close to stable versions of everything as you can
<benJIman> coolbeing: did sax2 not finish starting?
<coolbeing> benJIman, dont think so, it told me that I should start fro mline 2
<benJIman> try init 3, and run it again
<coolbeing> benJIman, let me maybe try again and write down what it exaactly told me
<benJIman> otherwise try "sax2 --lowres"
<coolbeing> is there a way to log back in without restarting?
<benJIman> if that still gives an error write it down and ask again
<shuffle2> anyone know where i can get ahold of cacaxine? i have aaxine working, but would like to test color ascii (ohhh ahhh ;) )
<groogs> benJIman: yeah, but not designing for that situation can cause problems. ie, you want to run php5, but with apache 1.3.x, as you have some mission-critical module that hasn't been ported to 2.x yet
<benJIman> coolbeing: yes
<benJIman> groogs: it is designed for that situation, to the extent that is physically possible
<benJIman> groogs: it doesn't change the situation
<coolbeing> "init 3" tyoe it in ?
<benJIman> after you've logged in
<groogs> but what about this testing is only done against the supported versions? doesnt running an older or newer version of the package mean you're not running a supported version?
<benJIman> yes
<coolbeing> "init 3" type itt in as a comamdn in CTRL+ALT+F1
<coolbeing> ok
<coolbeing> brb
<benJIman> testing is done against stable, the package manager will ensure you don't get the wrong updates
<benJIman> groogs: these issues apply to every distro, there is no physical way that every possible combination of things can be supported
<benJIman> groogs: whatever distro the situation is far better than windows with no package management at all where you have to go find and apply and test security updates for each app/service you have installed manually
<groogs> lol, i agree 100% with you there :p
<benJIman> if you have a magical solution that will enable everything to work perfectly i'm sure everyone would be happy to hear it
<groogs> well i wasn't even saying that.. i was originally saying it was weird to even label a bunch of packages with a version number, though you (eventually) explained why they do that-- testing
<benJIman> ;)
<benJIman> and target for ISVs
<benJIman> and for selling as aproduct in boxed set
<benJIman> knowing what customers have installed for providing support
<benJIman> having a target for the documentation
<benJIman> etc etc
<groogs> but my (debian-ist) view point was that WHY even label it with a version number, when if your package manager is good enough you should be able to maintain a decent expectation that you won't have conflicts (again, nothing can be 100%)
<groogs> yeah ,ok , all valid points
<kayleigh> lo dude
<the_dude> :)
<benJIman> not having conflicts is only a small point, package manager should be able to at least achieve that yes
<the_dude> you getting snow?
<kayleigh> dunno lemme see
<kayleigh> nope rain:/
<kayleigh> lol
<endir> Do all the scripts in /sbin/conf.d/ get run when SuSEconfig runs?
<benJIman> hmm not sure if it runs all of them, quite possibly
<benJIman> many of them at least
<endir> I'm tweaking prelink, alot. And my unload doesnt seem to run when USE_PRELINK is set to no
<endir> Just curious if something else is checking sysconfig stuff to decide what to run or not
<benJIman> I havn't really looked into it much, other than reading some of the scripts it runs to see what they're doing
<endir> It wouldn't make sense to have something else look at the sysconfig settings first. Otherwise the SuSEconfig scripts wouldn't check to see if it was turned on or not.
<sPiN> ohh christ! some schmuck posted on a dig a tutorial for using image ready to create a css layout from a photoshop file!
<endir> If this works, I figured out how to decrease the time prelink takes to update in SuSEconfig
<benJIman> is digg working again?
<benJIman> it was broken for over a day
<sPiN> the horrrrrror!
<aka_druid> digg broken?
<sPiN> ben, i never noticed it down
<benJIman> it had a blank front page
<benJIman> I thought it was an improvement
<kayleigh> aahahahaha
<the_dude> hah
<benJIman> the rss feed still worked
<the_dude> you do that just like me :)
<sPiN> ohh i never visit the actual site, i just used the rss
<benJIman> it was giving story not found when you followed link from rss too
<shuffle2> are there any tips I should know before I go about trying to install new bootsplashes/window decorations/themes/etc. on suse? (or is it like "normal"?)
<the_dude> normal
<shuffle2> sweet
<sPiN> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/free_issues/issue_10/professional_services_venezuela/
<sPiN> that is a damn good article, i suggest you guys read it
<endir> If anyone wants to try the SuSEconfig speed improvements to prelink I made grab this-> http://www.cs.unm.edu/~mdb/pkg/SL-10-OSS/prelink-2.0.0-170mdb.src.rpm
<benJIman> endir: is that just how long suseconfig takes to run prelink?
<benJIman> in my experience prelink slows down kde apps anyway, so no reason for me to turn it on at all
<kayleigh> damnit
<benJIman> kayleigh: having fun?
<endir> benJIman, It's using prelink -q and -f instead of running it fully each time.
<kayleigh> the reneck neighbors are shooting arrows
<kayleigh> its 9pm
<benJIman> endir: but there's little point running prelink if it just degrades performance
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