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Comments:
<0> prophile: can you help me understand why there is a problem when combining opengl and sdl?
<1> corto: SDL_OPENGLBLIT is a hack and will either work at a snail's pace or not at all
<1> corto: you can copy from SDL to OpenGL with textures
<0> prophile: but can you have 2 rendering context at the same time? one using sdl and the other using opengl
<2> prophile: You're talking about converting an SDL_Surface with the pitch for OpenGL, aren't you?
<2> corto: no
<1> corto: possibly, but you'd have to do some nasty hacking to do it
<1> corto: like running them from different threads
<2> That just makes no sense
<0> OK guys! well, I've been trying like a fool then...
<0> I was now thinking on shuting down SDL, and restart it with the correct video format, do my rendering, and shutdown again, restart go back to openg...
<0> SDL_SetVideoMode() when called twice will re-set the video mode right? could be used for switching from the 2 rendering contexts?
<2> corto: Why would you want to do that? I did not get the beginning of your problem because I just entered the channel
<0> Eskapade: the begining is a long time ago, I have to have raw pixel access on screeen
<0> and opengl is just one more layer to go through actually slowing things down. So i need to use raw sdl
<2> Don't they have anything about that on NeHe? They got SDL sources, too.
<0> eskapade, mixing the 2 rendering contexts?
<0> hmmm
<2> corto: Well, maybe not that. I don't get why you want to stick with SDL if you use OpenGL anyway at some point.
<0> eskapade, on certain hardware, opengl gets very slow to draw images on screen, the upload to a texture takes longer than it should take to do the whole displaying
<0> i'm talking bitmap here
<2> Non-power-of-two bitmaps?
<0> yup
<0> or not all the time, like screen sizes
<2> Oh there's something to help with that
<0> when dealing with textures it is padded to pow(2)
<2> http://www.mevis.de/opengl/gluBuild2DMipmaps.html
<2> http://nehe.gamedev.net/data/lessons/lesson.asp?lesson=07 (ctrl f for glubild2dmipmaps)
<0> this function is the slowest of all
<0> because it makes mipmaps of the texture being used
<0> I usually upload the texture raw, with no mipmapping (it wont be used)
<0> but uploading a texture is out of question, takes too much time for a large image
<0> the putpixel in opengl is faster
<0> but putpixel in sdl is even faster
<2> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/GraphicsImaging/Conceptual/OpenGL-MacProgGuide/opengl_texturedata/chapter_10_section_4.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001987-CH407-SW3
<2> Not sure whether this helps you
<0> lemme check
<0> not really, it adds work that needs to be done each time a frame needs to be displayed
<0> I'm trying to simplify, using only sdl
<2> Mm, no idea then. Sorry
<0> np
<0> I'll try switching from GLmode to SDLmode (just like a windowed and fullscreen switch) and see how that works
<3> Hi, does anyone know of the most common sdl-bottleneck factor ? .. my game is running at an alarmingly low fps on certain machines. I'm just doing simple 2d-graphics (1024x768x32 HWSURFACE|DOUBLEBUFF) alot of SDL_BlitSurface
<4> svearike: do you refresh all the screen each frame?
<3> Raziel, yes I do
<5> svearike: you're probably not getting hardwareblitting
<4> :P no good
<2> Raziel: does that matter when he uses double buffering?
<3> biscon, I would think not actually, because the speed does not seem to vary between DOUBLEBUFF , SW and HW (different combinations)
<4> I dunno, but I've got great speed improves with dirty rectangles
<5> Im on linux and far as I know the standard X11 driver for SDL won't sport any hardware blits if not using DRI
<3> ok, here is the most alarming part, on linux I get around 79 fps, on windows I get 30:ish, and a friend got 15 fps (win, and still a faster machine then mine)
<3> so basically my linux kicks a**, even though I haven't got any proper video drivers installed/configured
<5> svearike: probably because you are using DRI getting hardware blitting.. windows should provide hardware blitting as well trough the DX7 interfaces
<5> svearike: some open source drivers are able to accelerate 2d, what gfx card you got?
<3> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02)
<5> svearike: hmm tried profiling your program?
<3> biscon, nope? you lost me there :)
<5> svearike: not familiar with intel on board gfx, but I know that they opensourced their drivers lately, so 2d (and 3d for that matter) could easily come preinstalled with the standard drivers
<5> svearike: a profiler is a tool which can tell you in which part of your programs the CPU spends the most time :)
<3> but the biggest question seems to be, why is it so dramatically slower on windows ? I thought windows would have good support for all it's drivers etc.. sure I don't think that computer has DX7, but still
<5> svearike: are you doing anything else than rendering?
<3> biscon, yes I'm "updating" all my objects and then "drawing" them
<3> worth mentioning is that I'm using C++ ... that in it's self might be a bottleneck (compared to c atleast)
<5> svearike: I don't think that is the problem, but generally 2d fullscreen performance ****s these days, the hardware is build for accelerating hardware, good news is that its actually quite easy to use 3d hardware for 2d and your performance will skyrocket
<3> biscon, hm, how would I go about to do that then ? I want the performance to skyrocket :D
<5> svearike: im using opengl initialized trough SDL for 2d graphics, since I started doing that I have never had low framerates :)
<5> well you should learn the absolute basics of opengl, either from a tutorial or a book.. but if you don't care about 3d at all perhaps it would be easier to look at some code which uses gl for 2d, reading up on the functions
<3> biscon, Ok :) that sounds really promising, I tried doing that on my linux, but then I got 4~7 fps :) (no drivers) should probably work on windows though
<5> there is a project called zEngine on sourceforge, kind of a 2d sprite engine implemented on top of gl but really basic.. it isn't all that good but you can study the code
<3> biscon, so you can't use simple SDL_BlitSurface when you do OpenGL ? I read in the manual that you could, but perhaps that isn't accelerated then ?
<5> svearike: as with windows you need the right drivers on linux to get hardware acceleration
<3> biscon, I have done SOME opengl:ing, but I'm no expert
<3> biscon, yeah but I mean, who doesn't have the drivers on windows ? and especially for opengl ?
<5> svearike: nope.. you can't render with SDL.. but you just use a quad and a texture instead.. you can even configure opengl to setup a 2d like coordinatesystem
<3> biscon, the world is turned upside down.. since when should 3d-graphics be faster than 2d-graphics ?
<5> svearike: well if you doesn't have some kind of exotic card you usually have the driver as well :) nvidia's linux drivers are great and I know there are drivers for your intel board as well
<3> biscon, you wouldn't happen to know where to find them ? :D I gave it a half-hearted search before but didn't find any
<5> svearike: because 3d is almost just about drawing triangles
<5> svearike: with 2 triangles you can make a rectangle.. smear some texture on it
<3> biscon, with this opengl-2d-acceleration story, do you actually load all the textures on to the gfx-card and then access them from there ?
<5> svearike: yups opengl got a somewhat decent resourcemanager so you don't have to worry about filling vidmen (LRU cache)
<5> you upload them to the card and get a texture id in return.. you use that id to bind a certain texture
<3> biscon, ok well maybe I should check that zEngine out then :) but it sounds like such an overkill for my little tiny 2d-app :) I remember when mode 13h was all that mattered,, 320*200, that was fast
<3> biscon, yeah I thought as much, (remember doing something like that in the past)
<3> biscon, well I guess one upside is that I can actually perform some zooming capabilites to my game :)
<5> well if you are mostly blitting It aint.. the code isn't all that much bigger, its just another way of doing it
<5> svearike: oh yeah thats really easy and alpha blending comes for free
<5> svearike: as well as antialiasing if you're into that :)
<3> biscon, hehe :) well you make it all sound great, but it won't be great unless I find opengl drivers for my linux :) maybe I should write it so that it will go against either OpenGl or 2d :) should be pretty easy
<5> flipping, rotating, scaling as well
<5> svearike: you had the onboard 815g intel gpu?
<3> lspci says: Intel Corp. 82852/855GM
<5> svearike: http://intellinuxgraphics.org/documentation.html <-- good news you're supported
<5> svearike: http://intellinuxgraphics.org/download.html <-- you need the mesa 3d download on this page
<3> aah, perfect :)
<3> thanks
<5> svearike: np just googled your lspci output
<3> hmm.. actually I see that in xorg.conf I have i810 preset, but still glxgears is really slow
<5> svearike: well far is I could tell from a brief look on the page I linked, they have a seperate 3d driver.. the mesa driver, mesa is just another implementation of opengl
<3> biscon, hm, this is a bit strange hierarchy to me. yeah I see mesa=gl drivers, but do you believe I need to update those in order to get gl-support in Xorg ?
<5> svearike: I don't know if you need to update them, but you got to have them, if the regular driver is only 2d accelerated opengl will fallback on cpu rendering
<5> svearike: but I think you need that DRM kernel module running, don't worry we are not talking about digital rights management ;)
<5> I've always been an nvidia guy so im familiar with setting X up with them, but you should be able to find plenty of info, or just ask in #ubuntu
<3> :)
<3> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect
<3> glxinfo gave me that. would that imply that it's completely software based ?
<5> yeah that actually sounds pretty much like it is, but I use nvidia glx so im not sure.. but I think its their "slang" for software rendering
<6> yes, that's software rendering
<3> will have to check that DRM-module as well then
<5> svearike: indeed it is, im starting to have to google inorder to answer you questions ;)
<3> biscon, haha :) thanks for your efforts :)
<3> biscon, I just found out that I probably had selected the wrong driver in the kernel :) I changed it to i810 (in the DRM) section, do you know if you actually have to change anything in the xorg.conf? as I understood it, the DRI is using the kernel-drm modules
<5> svearike: http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/DRIintro.html - Introduction to the Direct Rendering Infrastructure. nice short read if you wanna know how it works on linux
<5> svearike: aslong as you load the DRI modules in your xorg.conf my guess would be that it should work
<5> svearike: probably just that kernel driver thing then :)
<3> I compiled it into the kernel,, that was pretty stupid of me, now I have to 1) reboot 2) have no easy way to see if it gets loaded hehe
<5> svearike: yeah modules are better then you can just rmmod & buttprobe the new module :)
<3> hehe, yeah :)
<7> :) who wants a big *** kernel anyway
<5> lol
<3> haha
<5> at least I know Tannenbaum wouldn't ;)
<3> well I'm off for a reboot , (going to greet my new big *** kernel)
<7> :)
<7> damn
<7> im getting tired
<7> need more coffein
<5> hehe would like some as well but then I can't fall asleep and I gotta get up for work again tomorrow
<7> i hate coffie but i gotta finish some code for school for tmr so i need that
<7> need it*
<3> nope, no luck :)
<5> how does the kernel like your driver? had a look at dmesg?
<3> what the **** ? .
<3> something just happened to my keyboard :)
<3> pipe doesn't work anymore.. *sigh*
<5> using gentoo?
<3> aaaah.. free diskspace on / == 0 bytes
<3> biscon, nope, slackware
<7> i feel like im gonna throw up thanx to this coffie =/
<5> okay had problems with the pipe in x on gentoo once, im ubuntu now.. to lazy for the geek distros
<3> :) I have to restart x to see if anything happens btw (dmesg said NOTHING about i810 driver)
<5> WS: I love the taste of coffee, just mix it with some sugar and milk, much more enjoyable
<7> biscon: yeah i have some milk and sugar in it but i still hate it, i think i made it pretty strong tho, never liked coffie anyway, its just a desperate measure to stay awake :)
<5> once I didn't like it either, just drink enough if it and you'll get the hang of it.. like smoking (although I won't recommend that :)
<8> aaah, back to normal :)
<5> tommy: you we're superman the last few hours or?
<5> were
<8> biscon, yeah, the superman who couldn't type pipe :)
<7> biscon: i hated beer too but now i love it altho it hasn't quite got the same effect, im not thinking about starting with coffie :)
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