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Comments:
<0> Coke: well, therein lies my problem as I want the db connection to persist, and I want the abiltiy to have multiple db's searches running in parrallel.
<1> Write a db connection pool.
<0> how might I do this??? :-D
<1> unfortunately, I don't think the MySQL API has support for asynchronous communication with the database.
<0> this is multiple db servers, not multiple db's
<0> well, multiple databases across a few servers, not one MySQL server with many db's
<0> or one server with many searches against one db
<1> indigoblu: write one cl*** that, via it's initializer, takes all the needed configuration. it will then implement methods that can give you the connections and/or cursors you need.
<2> eh
<2> what are these "egg" pythonp packages?
<3> Encapsulated sadness
<4> what would you recommend for a web framework, django or turbogear? (and why?)
<4> anyone?
<1> jiwon_: RoR ? ;)
<4> well, I'd like to use Ruby, but
<4> we've got no ruby expert. :)
<1> but Python is _readable_ and even more powerful, I know.
<1> but, on the other hand, to use RoR you need no expert, just someone who knows Perl and/or Python.
<1> the rest is easily figured out.
<4> anyone, what would be a good substitute for RoR?
<1> there isn't.
<5> turbogears
<4> winjer could you tell me some reasons why you picked turbogears instead of django?
<6> too much magic in django
<1> jiwon_: if you want to make things more difficult for you and not use RoR I can also suggest Twisted.
<6> none of these frameworks give you that much
<6> you still have to write the important bit
<1> RoR is _the_ thing to use for web application development.
<7> jiwon_ turbogears is touted as python's idea of RoR
<7> it's pretty nice, the little I've looked into it so far
<1> One problem can be attitude. I have always felt that Python is way to good to be wasted on backward paradigms, like the concept of web applications is.
<4> hmm, is turbogear similar to RoR?
<6> jiwon_: yes it is
<6> they both rely on a Model-View-Controller architecture
<6> with very strong emphasis on fitting that pattern
<6> this is good for small apps, since it's obvious where things go and the model is good enough
<6> for larger applications, the web bit of it gets lets significant and the internal architecture of your solution space gets more important, then the emphasis on MVC becomes less useful
<4> hmm what about RoR? is it becoming crapy as things grow?
<1> jiwon_: turbogears is way more difficult and magical. for example, it includes SQLObject, one of the most magical packages out there.
<6> no idea, i've never used it
<6> how SQLObject works is pretty obvious if you have RDBMS experience
<6> it's not as magic as django or axiom
<1> winjer: no it's not. it also requires m***ive amounts of experience with tinkering with Python fundamentals.
<4> is SQLObject something for O-R mapping?
<1> yes.
<6> jiwon_: yes
<4> (like by subcl***ing it)
<4> ok
<4> ok.. so actually, what I'm trying to make is
<4> something similar to http://surveymonkey.com/ this
<6> all of the frameworks will help you do that
<4> do you guys think turbo gear works for that kind of web site?
<1> jiwon_: ofcourse!
<6> the most difficult thing is that all of them are to some extent a moving target
<1> it was made to make crap like that.
<4> yeah, it's simple enough(i mean the site)
<4> ok..
<4> does turbo gear has html template engine similar to RoR?
<4> I'm just looking at RoR demo video, and find that
<4> template engine they're using is quite neat
<1> I still think RoR is a better choice (for a pragmatic aproach), but if you must stick with Python I can easily recommend SCGI and building your own web application using SQLObject and the xmlsoft.org XML/XSLT libraries.
<4> Coke do you think using RoR instead of turbogear worth the effort of learning Ruby?
<1> it will require more work initially, but it will in total be less code.
<4> plus the effort to pursuade people to learn Ruby.
<1> jiwon_: you don't have to learn Ruby to use RoR. we have designers using it.
<1> jiwon_: it's the task of learning RoR
<4> well, then
<4> can I use Python for business logic and
<1> ne1uno: hey, it's not my fault that Python programmers are sane enough to dislike web applications.
<4> use RoR only for web ..hmm
<1> jiwon_: well. no. not really. RoR is self contained for the most part.
<4> then I still have to learn Ruby for business logic part.
<7> jiwon_ definitely not worth it to anyone but a Ruby pundit :-)
<7> jiwon_ yes, turbogears has a templating engine. I don't know how similar it is RoR's
<1> There's also Zope.
<4> Zope is too heavy.
<7> turbogears also uses SQLObject, as suggested separately for some reason?
<8> http://www.checkandshare.com/modelDesigner/ will be a demo in tg.9
<1> I have never understood what is so good about Zope or why anybody in the right state of mind would use it, but obviously they have zelous followers too.
<4> I don't want to try it again after I've tried it 1 and half years ago
<7> Coke have you used turbogears at all? Or looked at it?
<1> Zalamander: I have looked at it. Just looking at the dependencies tells me it will be more advanced than RoR.
<7> dependencies?
<4> what do you mean by "be more advanded than RoR" ?
<1> Zalamander: the frameworks it consists of.
<7> it's certainly quite simple to use
<1> jiwon_: more complex, but also with more flexibility.
<1> for example, SQLObject was not created to let dimwitted web developers use RDBMS', it was made as a powerful object oriented interface. Debugging it requires a great deal of Python knowledge. RoR's aproach is that any monkey should be able to develop and debug.
<1> albeit, that is also a limitation.
<9> RoR isn't anything special
<1> no, it's just really simple to use for people who do not really know programming.
<9> those people should not be writing web apps ;)
<1> nobody should be writing "web apps", but the people who don't know programming insist on it.
<1> that's why they end up writing most of'em . :)
<4> well, I don't like web programming, but
<1> jiwon_: here's a suggestion: download Turbogears and evaluate it.
<4> businesses done through web tell us that
<4> hmm
<9> you could also try Django
<4> which of the two is more stable, btw?
<1> jiwon_: Turbogears consists of many already existing packages that have existed for quite some time.
<1> The Turbogears documentation is pretty impressive.
<8> subway gets less hype and has less frenetic supporters
<4> hm,
<4> to install TurboGear through Python Eggs, what do I need to install in FreeBSD port?
<4> I tried searching with "egg", but in vail
<4> vain
<8> jiwon_, ez_setup.py
<4> oh, is it something that's already in Python?
<8> should be info on any download page, it is a chicken egg kind of thing to get started though.
<8> the egg can bootstrap itself from ez_setup.py I think
<8> might need the dev package for your os
<4> could you tell me where should I download ez_setup?
<1> jiwon_: that is why I prefer building my own web apps, no huge, suplemental libraries needed just to glue the framework together.
<8> jiwon_, http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/setuptools/0.6a9
<4> I guess I need to download "Source" type..
<8> eggs gets everyone back into version hell. its not going to speak well for python.
<10> what are the point of eggs?
<11> cr***: they're like .deb or .rpm for python
<10> Jerub: I still don't see the point, to ease install?
<4> I heard that egg is to python what jar is to java.
<11> cr***: yes.
<11> cr***: exactly.
<11> ease of installation, dependancy management.
<10> it can aautomatically resolve dependancies?
<12> In docutils, can a table have a caption?
<13> can you do all the system admin task with python .. including installing perl modudules and perl base softwares ??
<12> Incidentally, what do people use for editing docutils tables?
<11> twb: vim
<10> xerophyte: it can do anything any other language can do
<13> cr***, i mean does it has more batteries like perl does
<12> Jerub: do you use any tools in vim to make it easier?
<11> twb: control-v
<10> xerophyte: it lacks a CPAN type thing, but I think that's being worked on
<12> Jerub: I use Emacs, which has table mode which makes it a little bit like creating tables in winword.
<11> cr***: eggs *are* the CPAN type thing
<12> It's still a PITA to keep everything aligned, though.
<11> python ez_setup.py turbogears # <- install turbogeras
<10> Jerub: oh, yeah, but not alal the features of CPAN, like searching for modules and such, or does it have that?
<12> cr***: apt-cache search :-)
<11> cr***: the cheeseshop allows searching
<1> I'm not totally pleased with my emacs mode, any recommendations on an Emacs21 Python mode?
<10> twb: not an apt user, thanks
<10> Jerub: yeah, from a web interface
<12> Coke: try asking in #emacs
<1> twb: bah! they would have me throwing Python away in favor of elisp :)
<8> cheescake refuses to guess
<12> Coke: maybe...
<12> Coke: elisp ****s pretty hard, too.
<12> Especially since you can point to Edwin and say "look! It's better in every respect than elisp!"
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