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<Poopsmith> neurogeek: No, you're right. I ****ed up. :P
<paniq> ****
<nomed> Yhg1s, no
<paniq> noone cares.
<nomed> isistance(a,list)
<nomed> is what i need thanks
<Yhg1s> I seriously doubt it.
<paniq> anyway.
<Yhg1s> but no worries, you'll fidn out why at one point or another.
<paniq> i was an entirely sane person until i was taught python.
<Poopsmith> neurogeek: I suppose I have problems with the old style approach to simply labelling parts of the brain, too (as Broca did). But since we can actually observe the action of individual neurons, as well as the aggregate activity in different parts of the brain, it seems like we can make a lot more progress now.
<paniq> "tabs as syntax element? this is crazy! but convincing! but crazy!"

<Poopsmith> So the newer cognitive psychology sort of stuff is very ineresting.
<Yhg1s> tabs? indentation.
<paniq> i like tabs.
<DrNoboto> white space _exists_???
<paniq> i did not attend the basel party, but i like tabs.
<Poopsmith> hehe
<DrNoboto> haha
<Poopsmith> I have a pal who got into an argument with some idiot on IRC the other day about Python.
<Poopsmith> The guy said he hated Python for forcing a given syntax on you.
<paniq> rofl
<paniq> yeah, c++ is so dynamic.
<Poopsmith> My friend said, "Um, all languages force a syntax on you."
<Poopsmith> He said, "Sorry, I meant style. Python forces a style on you. I hate that."
<Poopsmith> ...
<epoch> haha
<Yhg1s> well, that's fine.
<epoch> let me guess, he's a perl fan? :)
<paniq> it forces the right style.
<Poopsmith> epoch: I don't know. It was in #adium.
<Yhg1s> doesn't sound like much of an argument, just someone voicing his opinion.
<epoch> I see
<Yhg1s> not someone I'd enjoy working with, but still just someone voicing his opinion ;P
<Poopsmith> Yhg1s: Yeah, OK. But the point is that the guy was an idiot. ;)
<paniq> well i was choosing python partially because i liked the idea of having indentation as a syntax element. actually that was the whole point
<paniq> there are lots of other points but this one was very important.
<Poopsmith> I thought it was wonky when I learned it, but given that you indent anyway if you aren't a complete jackass, it's not a big deal.
<Poopsmith> I.e. in C, I indent just as rigorously, making ; essentially pointless.
<sybariten> paniq: i thought that was what everybody disliked
<epoch> ok, so I'm having issues with regular expressions... can someone explain this to me:
<paniq> yes, lots of people hate it,
<epoch> >>> re.sub("(@.*@)", "found \1", "@TOKEN@ is our token")
<epoch> 'found \x01 is our token'
<paniq> but it speeds up my writing
<sybariten> ok
<epoch> why is \1 not being substituted as I expect?
<Yhg1s> epoch: the \1 is interpreted by Python, before re.sub gets a chance to see it.
<Yhg1s> epoch: try r"\1" or "\\1"
<paniq> yup
<epoch> Yhg1s: ah, so I gotta escape it
<epoch> thanks
<paniq> use r""
<paniq> thats for regular expressions
<epoch> wicked, thanks
<epoch> r"" == raw string, right?
<paniq> kinda.
<paniq> it still takes \" :)
<epoch> heh, fair enough :)
<Yhg1s> it's a raw string literal.
<paniq> i also use it for windows paths
<paniq> these damn microsoft freaks
<paniq> they had to change _everything_
<Yhg1s> note that while it takes \" to escape a ", it actually leaves in in, too:
<Yhg1s> >>> r"\""
<Yhg1s> '\\"'
<Poopsmith> Heh. Speakikng of which, anyone here use IronPython yet?
<paniq> i looked at it
<Poopsmith> I think I'll try it.
<paniq> it uses .net
<Poopsmith> Yeah.
<Poopsmith> Works on Mono though, I hear.
<epoch> Yhg1s: would r'"' solve that?

<paniq> yeah but i dont need that kind of abstraction
<j4Rd4> Goodbye.
<paniq> i love ctypes
<paniq> i cant use .net with ctypes
<Poopsmith> Whoah, I didn't know it does static compilation.
<Poopsmith> That's neat.
<paniq> not entirely.
<paniq> dont overrate it.
<Poopsmith> Right, in progress, it says.
<paniq> it will still only be as fast as java.
<paniq> comparable to psyco.
<Poopsmith> paniq: What about the performance on pystone?
<paniq> besides, i looked at the microsoft shares the other day
<Poopsmith> It seems to do pretty well.
<paniq> and noticed their sign is MSFT
<paniq> if you speak it out it sounds like "misfit"
<paniq> i think thats kinda fitting.
<Poopsmith> Haha.
<paniq> Poopsmith: no idea, it comes from ms, so i'm not interested.
<paniq> they bought they guy who was working on it, now its all behind closed doors, so i dont want to know.
<Poopsmith> Eh, I'm not that biased. .NET is a very nice platform.
<paniq> they are never taking part in any standardization unless they invented it
<neurogeek> i agree on that
<neurogeek> to be honest, i only tried NET one time, but it was so slow installing i didn't use it anymore
<paniq> i know that a lot of guys inside msft are unhappy with the way the company is going,
<Poopsmith> neurogeek: On Windows or are you using Mono?
<neurogeek> my machine wasn't that fast either.. but i just didn't like it
<paniq> but well.
<neurogeek> Windows.. long time ago
<neurogeek> it was the first release of .NET
<paniq> i turned to linux a year ago,
<neurogeek> good for you :D
<paniq> and its kinda ... a cockaigne
<paniq> you have to eat through a giant mountain of sugar
<paniq> but finally you get there :>
<paniq> and its true, once youre through, youre fat and round.
<neurogeek> never saw it that way.. :D
<neurogeek> paniq, but happy, indeed
<Poopsmith> I don't know.
<DrNoboto> paniq: i like the way you think :)
<Poopsmith> I thin kthere are a lot of problems with MS, but I think it's also a pretty good opportunity to work there.
<paniq> :P
<Poopsmith> Then again, I'm starting there in the fall, so... ;)
<paniq> DrNoboto, i spend half of the day with finding fitting metaphors ;)
<BaconTastesGood> How can I test for the existence of a file? Is there something better than os.access()?
<Poopsmith> BaconTastesGood: os.isfile?
<Poopsmith> er, os.path.isfile
<DrNoboto> hehe
<paniq> Poopsmith, crap, you are going to WORK there
<Poopsmith> paniq: Yeah, so I'm hoping IronPython goes stable and I can write code in it.
<Poopsmith> ;)
<Poopsmith> I doubt it, though.
<paniq> ok, and i can predict the following:
<paniq> - you will get very rich
<Poopsmith> Hopefully.
<paniq> - you will have less time to spend time on irc
<paniq> - a guy with thorns will come up asking you for your signature.
<Poopsmith> Probably a little less ;)
<Poopsmith> Thorns?
<paniq> horns
<paniq> sorry.
<Poopsmith> Ah.
<paniq> red face, smirky grin.
<paniq> you'll recognize.
<Poopsmith> Well, they did make the highest offer of any I got. So there's that.
<paniq> why, it's steve ballmer of course!
<Poopsmith> And yeah, Ballmer is an *******.
<paniq> :D
<Poopsmith> But it's not like I have to have chairs thrown at me every day.
<paniq> hahaha
<paniq> well tell him you're going to work for google
<paniq> just for fun
<Poopsmith> I mean, on the plus side, he's passionate.
<Poopsmith> On the minus side, he's passionate.



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