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Comments:
<0> well, it's not our fault they are stupid
<1> nick125: value in free software is an exception, not a rule.
<0> you shouldn't be targetting those type of users *anyways*
<1> admit it, most the stuff on SF is half-finished crap.
<1> nick125: yes i should, they have money.
<2> ironfroggy: I think nick125 is just trolling now
<1> if you have money, im coming after YOU.
<3> ironfroggy: that's nonsense
<1> Leeds: its truth!
<2> Leeds: what's nonsense?
<3> ironfroggy: most of it is no-where near half-finished
<0> and I've seen a bunch of closed-source programs thats half-finished crap. look at windows.
<2> Leeds: that people don't perceive more value in things they pay for, or work to get?
<2> Leeds: look at any kid that inherited and didn't earn. they don't value what they have.
<1> nick125: yep, you're trolling. yes, windows has its problems, but it sure beats Linux (which im running right now) for almost everything you need in an operating system. it does more than most people realize, and for what it is, its great. of course its buggy, all software has bugs, and its a lot of software.
<4> I happen to disagree.
<4> windows doesn't have a word process that comes on the free installation cd.
<4> er processor.
<1> Jerub: WordPad
<3> it doesn't do proper multi-user
<5> Wordpad is a rich text editor, not a word processor
<1> Leeds: doesit better than linux/X does!
<2> I prefer working in Ubuntu, but I know the things Windows is good at and use it appropriately
<0> ironfroggy: how am I trolling?
<6> If they bundled MS-Word they'd have an anti-trust lawsuit against them
<6> Give them a break
<6> I prefer using Linux but I'm tired of this argument
<1> nick125: because you're just arguing to argue, but you dont really have substance behind what you're saying anymore.
<7> so what about customer service?
<8> let's just all get a mac and be happy :)
<4> I've been linux clean for what? 7 years now? occasionally I use windows to play games.
<4> oh, yeah, I own a mac.
<4> but that's just. .. unix .. really.
<4> :p
<0> ironfroggy: no, I'm arguing because your business plan is flawed..
<1> i run windows and linux side-by-side
<5> Jerub: Same, though now I'm working on my own game in pygame :D
<4> I bought a gamecube for gaming.
<9> i wonder what google uses python for.
<1> nick125: and i strongly disagree with you. people sell software all the time, and it works. you're arguments are aimed against the selling itself, not specifics of my bussiness plan.
<6> JohnnyL: most definitely build stuff
<2> ironfroggy, nick125: I think we should just drop this topic, hmm?
<10> Perhaps lexical analysis too
<9> kapputu, that is most triumphant.
<11> JohnnyL: it sounds like admin/management apps to me
<1> there isnt any python involved when you type "google.com" in firefox, if you're wondering that.
<11> ironfroggy: yeah, it's java because python is too slow
<1> teratorn: it will be a while before i embark on this project, but you seemed to like the ideas and you mentioned having some of your own. any chance i should approach you when the time comes?
<6> they allow production code to be one of Java, C++, Python
<9> cybercobra , managing what though?
<0> ironfroggy: I seriously do not think that a "open-source but you have to pay to use it" type system is going to work. show me somewhere it has worked before
<6> Python is very good for NLP
<2> ironfroggy: yeah let me know how things progress
<11> JohnnyL: got me. they've never been too specific
<10> kapputu: *nod*
<1> nick125: WingWare, Windows CE, _any_ commercial python software.
<2> nick125: not a request any more. drop the topic.
<10> kapputu: Working on an application to build corpa from websites.
<2> ironfroggy: please.
<1> teratorn: sorry, he's edging me on and i have legitament answers :-(
<2> ironfroggy: who cares? :)
<1> teratorn: im right, so i do!
<2> yeah, well, I hope you leave that attitute behind if you actually want to start a business :)
<6> asmodai: you mean corpora?
<1> i know where to push what attitudes.
<2> *nod*
<10> kapputu: Right, sorry. Just woke up and still jetfragged.
<0> probably in the time we spent arguing, we could have probably written an IDE heh
<1> teratorn: would you have any interest in contributions? maybe want to take a look when there is a prototype?
<6> asmodai: what corpus?
<10> kapputu: Japanese in this case.
<1> nick125: in python, of course
<0> of course
<2> ironfroggy: I might be, yeah
<10> kapputu: Possibly Dutch too.
<0> python simply rocks :)
<6> asmodai: how do you encode it?
<6> utf-8 or SJIS?
<10> kapputu: right now I am using utf-8.
<10> kapputu: Been pondering utf-16
<6> why?
<0> ironfroggy: I like the ideas you've came up with though..
<1> nick125: one of the reasons i so strongly argued with you about this, is that a few years ago i would have agreed with you.
<10> kapputu: constant encoding instead of utf-8's length changes. But need to check if it would be better to use over utf-8 for better reasons :)
<0> maybe you could implement some of the pre-existing open source stuff, such as maybe what pylint uses to detect duplicate code, etc
<10> kapputu: It might mean a small speed increase, but haven't gotten any benchmarks
<0> basically, have a button you push, and it would refactor as much code automatically as possible
<1> nick125: dont get me wrong, i love open source, but i think "free software" is as flawed and immoral as the "nonfree software" they hate.
<6> is the performance so critical?
<10> kapputu: Not yet. :)
<12> asmodai: why do you think it's going to give you a gain?
<6> is this a research app or a commercial/fun app?
<10> kapputu: research/fun.
<0> ironfroggy: I'm just saying, personally, I would be much more willing to contribute and use the software if I knew that it was open source, it's that kind of feeling that you are helping a community
<6> Makes me want to go back to school
<1> nick125: there are a lot of things to consider. when i release, write a plugin to do the pylint thing :-)
<0> I really like the ideas you've got though..
<1> nick125: exactly, it is open source and you are helping a community. we're really on the same page here, i think.
<10> ferringb: An initial thought was that the UTF-16 doesn't use variable length encoding whereas UTF-8 does, depending on the plane you access. But like I said, I need to reread the backgrounds again. Last three weeks of vacation did a lot of forgetting :)
<1> nick125: but just because you can change and modify software doesnt mean you shouldnt have to pay for the original, does it?
<6> asmodai: you need help with your app? I don't know Japanese though
<0> ironfroggy: I simply don't get how you could charge for it, if it was open source. Someone could simply steal the source code, plus, it costs a lot to sue someone anyways..
<1> teratorn: id like to note that this conversation is distinctly seperate!
<1> nick125: where would they steal it from?
<0> ironfroggy: well, how would you distribute the source?
<1> nick125: so would you be less adverse if it was normal commercial software, like visual studio?
<1> nick125: tarballs, install files, depending on the platform. standard stuff.
<0> I'm simply confused on how you could charge for something that's open source..unless its for support, for example, that's something you could charge for..
<12> asmodai: what are you doing with the data?
<10> kapputu: It's very simplistic what I have now, basically working on stripping all cruft from the webpages I use to pull the texts from. Haven't even started on the real stuff yet.
<1> nick125: you're making the common mistake of interchanging "open source" and "free software"
<10> ferringb: I am working on a Dutch<>Japanese dictionary project
<12> asmodai: random lookup of a char in a string, or...
<1> nick125: basically, i believe we should have the rights of viewing, modifying, and exchaning patches. but i dont think we have any right to redistribute.
<12> asmodai: iow, lookup as you're going?
<10> ferringb: all free/open, and in this way I can determine frequency tables
<1> nick125: does that make sense?
<6> asmodai: what's it about? What kind of websites are you pulling data from?
<12> asmodai: just use a trie...
<10> kapputu: At first, major newspapers.
<10> ferringb: For storage you mean?
<12> asmodai: char length won't really matter there, have to search as you go anyways
<12> asmodai: yeah
<0> ironfroggy: well, other then the whole "if you contribute a plugin, and its popular, you get $$", what would compell developers to contribute to it?
<10> ferringb: K, will dig up the details in my Sedgwick book about tries again.
<6> aah tries.
<10> kapputu: Need to get the proof of concept working first. :)
<12> asmodai: key thing is this- ascii, you can do immediate lookup of a char at index x
<1> nick125: the same sharing with a community as in any other case, just like you talk of.
<10> ferringb: Sure, since they're encoded at the same position, very useful :)
<12> asmodai: unicode, afaik the python implementation doesn't maintain offset -> index position (would be really surprised if they did).
<1> nick125: it doesnt matter if they all paid for it or not, they are still a community of users of the program.
<0> ironfroggy: what's going to prevent the whole "oh, this guy is making money off of my work" thing?
<12> asmodai: in your case, you don't need it though really, you're doing it char by char already, so you know the byte count per char, plus nature of your searching is going to be char by char already (rather then random lookup)
<11> nick125: stupid co-developers? ;-)
<10> ferringb: haha, no no, it's appreciated.
<1> nick125: people write software for windows, and thats why microsoft can sell copies of windows. no everyone can write an entire IDE, but if you can provide a platform for them to build small ideas for an IDE, they can push stuff out they couldnt otherwise. there is value in the distribution channel and the audience for their work.
<10> ferringb: In my work I deal with totally different stuff, and spare time is, as always, limited, so the research and stuff I need to know to pull it off can always use a little push.
<10> ferringb: Only so much one can learn in short time. Although my CJKV book will help a ton.
<12> cjkv?
<6> asmodai: good luck
<10> ferringb: O'Reilly's book about Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese.
<10> kapputu: Thanks. Once I get some more done I'll ping you to check out some things.
<10> kapputu: If for nothing more than a peer review or something. I'm sure I might be missing some better way to approach something ;)
<0> ironfroggy: that seems like an interesting idea there
<6> asmodai: I'd surely like to do that though I have been out of touch with the academic world for around a year and half now
<1> nick125: is it seeming to make more sense now?
<6> asmodai: not sure if I want to go back to NLP or take up data mining
<10> kapputu: Well, this isn't quite academic
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