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Comments:
<0> its not as scriptable as python
<1> ironfroggy: how do you know.
<2> the warranty will be invalid with user-created plugins of course, but they can sell warranty and support for large plugin systems, too.
<2> and i can take popular plugins and integrate them officially
<1> warranty???
<2> teratorn: what other problems could there be? i ***ume ne1uno meant the kind of problem where the program crashes or does unexpected stuff if you use a bad plugin or patch?
<1> ironfroggy: yeah
<2> of course, user-submitted code will be automatically submitted to a full range of tests before pushing to the public.
<2> teratorn: well then thats warranty related.
<1> ironfroggy: just I can't remember the last piece of software I've seen that had a warranty
<2> teratorn: but the idea is that all the individual contributors are part of the bussiness, so they take care of it themselves.
<1> if ever
<2> teratorn: they like to hide it, but they do. why do you think they cost so much? support.
<0> you are describing haveing source and user/developer view of the code seperate, that is quite the playground
<2> ne1uno: what do you think of it tho?
<0> crashes would be the only escape
<3> ironfroggy: oh no i just created an infinite series and did a list() on it
<3> ironfroggy: i am just learning about generators
<3> :)
<3> ironfroggy: and doing silly things
<0> ***uming they are actual crashes and nt simulated ones
<1> ironfroggy: uhm, yeah, support. that's not the same as a warranty. most software licences explicitly dictate that the software comes with no warranty whatsoever.
<2> teratorn: you're thinking free software.
<1> not really, no
<2> if there was no stated or implied warranty, they wouldnt have to give support. "what? its broken? well, no warranty, so too bad!"
<1> I know I've seen that often in commercial software licences as well
<2> but not all.
<1> ironfroggy: no, I didn't say all :)
<1> ironfroggy: you have some idea of the statistics here?
<4> theres a difference between a legal warranty and trying to keep your customers happy
<5> ironfroggy: theres a difference between warranty and support
<2> teratorn: nope.
<2> nick125: of course, but they are intrinsically connected.
<2> support is the mechanism to promise that the warranty is worth something
<1> ironfroggy: doesn't a warranty make you liable?
<2> warranty is the contract for why you have support.
<2> teratorn: it makes me liable to answer their questions.
<0> typing voids the waurenty
<1> ironfroggy: i'm not sure what you call that, but I don't think it's called a warranty.
<2> brb
<5> I seriously don't think the open-source but not exactly business model is going to work
<2> why?
<2> you prefer closed source?
<5> I don't see how it would work.
<2> why?
<5> service contracts and closed-source plugins would probably work
<1> ironfroggy: eh well, maybe the word warranty applies. i would just call it "the licence" or "terms of support"
<0> usable plugins are in some ways better than free source
<2> what does my model lack that "free software" doesnt?
<5> basically, make the IDE open source with all the features we talked about, then, you could make additional plugins (like UML for example could be one) that you would sell
<2> the bussiness is in the platform
<5> I think that more people would be willing to contribute to a really good open source editor, then to a semi-open source edit..
<2> why so?
<2> in my model they can profit from their contributions.
<5> what would prevent people (other then the law, that has been proved to not work already) from taking the source code and redistributing it
<1> nick125: the law works pretty damn well in that regard, in so far as you prevent other people selling your software for money
<6> can you define instance variables anywhere in your program?
<1> nick125: as I said before, people that want to copy it illegally will do so no matter what
<7> hello
<6> or do you have to define them in your __init__ method only?
<7> any quick way of chomping final \n?
<5> taw: strip() maybe
<7> nick125: but it cuts all whitespace, and i just want to get rid of the final \n
<4> if str[-1]=='\n' : cut end off
<2> nick125: what will stop me from suing them for more than i make selling the stuff for in the first place?
<6> taw: try str.rstrip('\n')
<5> ironfroggy: look at the piracy situation at the moment..
<2> kapputu: you can ***ign anywhere
<4> there you go, even easier
<2> nick125: yeah piracy of all closed-source apps, so there isnt any reason not to just open source it anyway.
<2> besides, people pirate movies and games, not development tools (as much)
<7> kapputu: thx
<2> say this project launches, and you decide to try out my baby. would you consider a kind of contribution system like i was talking about?
<6> ironfroggy: Depends on the software. If it's something that'd be useful to a lot of people then you need to price it low
<6> People pirate software because 1) they can't afford it 2) they think software is not worth a lot of money
<5> ironfroggy: I like the idea for plugins, however, I probably wouldn't use the IDE since I don't have much money to spend on IDE's and such..
<2> id probably do a "free (as in beer) for free (as in speech) use" kinda thing
<6> Sorry for interjecting
<5> ironfroggy: well, why would you want to charge for it anyways?
<2> or at least a "personal license"
<1> nick125: to get money, why else
<2> nick125: because it will take work. why wouldnt i? i have a family to feed
<2> nick125: are you being too idealistic, maybe?
<2> did richard stallman bite you on a fullmoon?
<5> well, I usually don't have a bunch of money to go spend on software, and, most people that work on open source software don't either
<1> nick125: not really true at all
<2> consider several factors.
<1> nick125: most people that work on open source have at least decent jobs
<2> open source is largely used by companies these days, and they have money.
<1> nick125: or they're too young to work
<1> that, too
<2> and people who use free software have lots of money, cause they arent spending it on software.
<1> heh
<2> or they are old enough to work but not to have bills.
<5> you have to look at it like this: would you get more contributors by making it fully open source, or would the money you get off the editor be enough to pay someone to help you develop it
<2> i need to get a team to do this
<8> Any numbers to backup any of these ridiculous claims?
<1> ahmeni: numbers are for making actual business decisions, not arguing on IRC ;)
<9> anyone from python hosting here?
<2> nick125: if the software is really good, people will pay for it. some of those people will love it, and others will like it enough. the ones who dont love it will figure out why and make it lovable for them.
<5> ironfroggy: also, how are you going to pay the developers to develop this for you?
<1> I go to all the pain and h***le of running Window just so I can use a few kick-*** apps that I've paid for
<10> i use Windows so i can use the kick-*** apps i didn't pay for
<1> *shrug*
<2> nick125: credit-cards and checks?
<2> nick125: do i not understand the relevence of your question?
<5> ironfroggy: where are you going to get the money to pay the developers to initially develop it?
<1> when you get to the point in your life where you're time is actually important to you, and you make enough to support yourself comfortably, buying relatively cheap software isn't a big deal
<2> nick125: what developers who initially develop it? you mean ME?
<1> you spend more going out on a date
<11> anyone here use Turbo Gears?
<1> it's hardly worth trolling warez sites and bothering with buggy pre-released virus infected priates copies
<1> at least for me
<2> teratorn: agreed.
<5> ironfroggy: it's gonna be interesting to see how quickly you are going to develop a huge app like you are describing by yourself
<1> some people enjoy that sort of thing though
<2> nick125: good design goes a long way. and it wont take too much for it to be sellable.
<1> some people make good livings writing niche applications for OS X
<2> nick125: and maybe ill look for contributors before it releases.
<1> the market is there
<5> ironfroggy: how are you going to pay the contributors?
<2> contributors before the public release would get a cut of the bussiness.
<2> just like contributors after the fact.
<5> most developers don't work like that..what if the application fails?
<5> they get nothing
<1> nick125: true, in fact, many developers develop software for nothing at all!
<12> you guys know about wingIDE and komodo right?
<1> hence the topic of htis very channel
<2> nick125: of course they do. what do you think a startup is?
<1> *this
<2> darkgreen: yeah, ive had both of them.
<1> darkgreen: I mentioned Wing earlier
<1> darkgreen: haven't looked at komodo lately
<1> I've been meaning to put Wing through its paces lately. I might switch to it if its good enough
<2> its good.
<5> also, why would people use this editors when there are good open source ones out there?
<2> nick125: because it will be better than they are.
<2> nick125: because it will be ENTERPRISE enabled.
<13> Does python have range method on string? ie if I have a string like "1,2,3,4,5," but I only want to print "1,2,3,4,5", I could say "1,2,3,4,5,"[0..-1] ?
<12> string[:-1]
<13> darkgreen: thanks.!
<1> nick125: dude. Enterprise. get with the program.
<5> enterprise enabled?
<6> nick125: I'll contribute for free
<2> nick125: im joking.
<2> but seriously, people will pay because 1) it will do things they'll want, 2) it will be cool (OpenGL code editor!) and 3) if its free, a lot of people will ***ume it has no value!
<2> the third one is true, and surveys have shown exactly so.
<5> problem with your 3rd argument: so, people think linux has no value?
<2> if you have a web-server, for example, and you add a paid "professional" service for like 10 bucks a month, you'll get more free users just for the perceived value of the product because "if someone is paying for it, it must be good"
<2> nick125: many people do, yes.
<5> well, it's not our fault they are stupid
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