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Comments:
<JabberWalkie> JV625: try #electronics
<JV625> Thanks, didnt know it existed
<JabberWalkie> JV625: they are generaly quite helpfull with such things...
<JabberWalkie> JV625: but they arn't RF engineers....unfortunately....
<JV625> Well thanks, I'll ask them. Are there any similar channels on here that deal with Electrical Engineering type stuff?
<JabberWalkie> JV625: not to my knowledge
<Mephisto> JV625: as far as i know it's a wire length issue so to speak .. SMD can be made much smaller than the traditional components
<Mephisto> JV625: not sure if that's the true reason though
<pkiddie> hello i have a question about the normal force and how when you draw force diagrams for objects at rest you put a force away from what the object is resting on to cancel out gravity.
<pkiddie> hope that makes some sense
<pkiddie> but it seems to me that whatever the object is resting on is not really exerting any force it is only the force of the object is not enough to overcome the inertia of whatever it is resting on.
<pkiddie> i was just wondering if anyone could tell me if this is correct or wrong.
<JabberWalkie> pkiddie: say we had a ball on a table....if the table exerted no force on the ball the ball would fall thorugh the table
<pkiddie> yeah i understand that
<pkiddie> so the table has to exert a force
<JabberWalkie> pkiddie: yes
<pkiddie> i am just trying to think about where that force comes from?
<pkiddie> if i had enough force though from my ball i cuuld push the table and the earth
<pkiddie> does that force have to do with inertia?
<JabberWalkie> pkiddie: yea....you would need to do some hell of a push....
<NoorulIslaam> pkiddie the table is indeed exerting a force on the ball
<NoorulIslaam> if the ball is heavy enough
<NoorulIslaam> it will break the table
<NoorulIslaam> since the table is not able to exert a strong enough force then
<pkiddie> well yeah really strong table
<NoorulIslaam> this force has nothing to do with inertia
<NoorulIslaam> it's the mutual repulsion of fermionic matter
<NoorulIslaam> it's an electromagnetic being force applied to the ball
<NoorulIslaam> against the ball's weight...which is caused by gravity
<Strongbad2> does anyone here speak german
<NoorulIslaam> you can increase the force the table has to exert on the ball by standing on the ball yourself, or by pushing the ball into the table even harder
<JabberWalkie> Strongbad2: i think Manyfold does....but i dont think he is here...
<Strongbad2> dang
<pkiddie> so its the electromagnetic force that stops the ball from falling through the table as long as gravities force is less the ball well sit on the table
<pkiddie> well=will
<NoorulIslaam> eventually, the table's atoms will no longer be able to apply the required force to keep the ball still, and the table will break
<JabberWalkie> pkiddie: no the forces are equal
<NoorulIslaam> pkiddie the forces are equal
<pkiddie> JabberWalkie, i mean if i push harder and harder
<NoorulIslaam> which is the reason the ball doesn't move
<NoorulIslaam> no force = no acceleration
<NoorulIslaam> pkiddie there will come a point when the table is no longer able to apply the required force to the ball
<JabberWalkie> pkiddie: if you push harder the table will push harder...untull it breaks
<pkiddie> eventually ill have pushed hard enough that the force downward is stronger then the electromagnetic force.
<JabberWalkie> s/untull/untill
<NoorulIslaam> then the force on the ball due to your push will be greater than how hard the table can push
<NoorulIslaam> so force of push > force from table
<NoorulIslaam> and the ball moves
<NoorulIslaam> and the table breaks
<pkiddie> ok so thats interesting that the force only pushes as hard as it needs too
<NoorulIslaam> pkiddie think of the atoms in the table like a spring
<NoorulIslaam> they can only be stretched so much
<pkiddie> eventually they break
<NoorulIslaam> they break or deform
<pkiddie> if the gravitational field was removed they would push the ball
<NoorulIslaam> wood usually breaks
<pkiddie> back
<pkiddie> is that true or is that stretching the analogy too far
<NoorulIslaam> metal deforms at first, and breaks if its continued to stretch
<NoorulIslaam> it's true pretty much
<NoorulIslaam> all matter is elastic to some extent
<NoorulIslaam> for gl***, the elasticity is extremely low
<NoorulIslaam> for a spring, it's relatively high
<pkiddie> so um how about when you push something
<NoorulIslaam> push something into the table?
<pkiddie> um no say push the table across the floor
<NoorulIslaam> ok
<NoorulIslaam> you mean the force of inertia here?
<pkiddie> the electromagnetic force is still good because the table doesnt fly apart.
<NoorulIslaam> or the force of friction?
<pkiddie> inertia
<NoorulIslaam> ok
<NoorulIslaam> if you push table fast enough
<NoorulIslaam> the force of inertia will overcome the table's electromagnetic binding force between the atoms
<NoorulIslaam> 1 sec...electricity out here :(
<pkiddie> the binding force between the atoms of the table and floor
<pkiddie> electricity out here? ran out of electricity thats not good.
<NoorulIslaam> pkiddie sorry about that
<pkiddie> oh hey
<pkiddie> NoorulIslaam, hows the electricity
<NoorulIslaam> back now
<pkiddie> yeah
<pkiddie> um i guess im having trouble understanding what causes inertia
<NoorulIslaam> that's one of the mysteries of physics
<pkiddie> so if i push on something in space inertia is how much i have to push before it accelrates
<pkiddie> the electromagnetic force stops me from pushing through
<pkiddie> it
<NoorulIslaam> although, my theory explains it...but my theory isn't complete yet, so until it's accepted, inertia is going to remain unexplained :P
<NoorulIslaam> pkiddie no
<NoorulIslaam> inertia is the resistance to acceleration
<NoorulIslaam> the fact that you feel the object pushing back on your hands is called inertia
<NoorulIslaam> of course, a table on the ground is going to have friction as well
<pkiddie> right
<NoorulIslaam> in space, if you continued to push on something
<NoorulIslaam> it would push back on you with the same force
<NoorulIslaam> but it would continuous speed up as well
<NoorulIslaam> because there is no friction
<pkiddie> and the inertia or the fact that i feel it pushing back on my hands has nothing to do with the electromagnetic force
<NoorulIslaam> no
<NoorulIslaam> well only in a way
<NoorulIslaam> you feel the push as the atoms of your hand repel the atoms of the table
<NoorulIslaam> but what actually pushes the table back so that it can push on the atoms of your hand? that is inertia
<pkiddie> oh ok
<pkiddie> now thats what i was wondering. that is inertia and that is something unexplained
<pkiddie> so is inertia a force?
<NoorulIslaam> yes
<pkiddie> so i can draw it as a force and i do when i make diagrams
<NoorulIslaam> but there is no accepted theory on what causes inertia in the first place
<NoorulIslaam> yep
<pkiddie> right cool and inertia only affects acceleration once im going it no longer is in affect.
<NoorulIslaam> yes
<pkiddie> weird
<NoorulIslaam> according to current theory, spacetime is non-isotropic when accelerating
<NoorulIslaam> and that leads to inertia as seen from someone who is not accelerating
<NoorulIslaam> but it still doesn't explain why you feel inertia if you yourself are being accelerated (like in a rocket, for example)
<pkiddie> hmm. spacetime weird also
<NoorulIslaam> why is spacetime weird?
<NoorulIslaam> seems logical to me
<pkiddie> because i dont understand it yet i havent studied it at all
<NoorulIslaam> well you don't really need to study it
<NoorulIslaam> you can derive the concepts of spacetime logically yourself
<pkiddie> ok
<pkiddie> im not really sure what spacetime refers to
<pkiddie> NoorulIslaam, maybe ill bother you about it another day, thanks for helping me with inertia
<iojkl> hello
<defcon8> hello, iojkl
<DanF_DrC> a thought: a pipenet in the ground will allow extraction of heat energy from the ground into a house using compression, the same principle as a refrigerator. what if that could be done analogous with the zero point energy ocean
<Andares> Hey, using current methods, how long can a plasmoid be maintained?
<DanF_DrC> if powered, forever
<Manyfold> hello
<Manyfold> any horny slut here?
<darkgreen> I don't see any horny sluts :(
<Manyfold> darkgreen: are you male?
<darkgreen> I was
<Manyfold> *** reversal?
<darkgreen> no, I still am
<darkgreen> my previous statement did not explicitly state that I was not male now,
<darkgreen> only that in the past I was.
<darkgreen> I am a moron
<Manyfold> me too
<pgm> heh, Manyfold is amusing.
<darkgreen> anyone here remember kings quest III?
<Manyfold> no never played it
<hondje> vaguely
<Manyfold> does anyone remember Baldurs Gate 2?
<pgm> I only play c64 games with the x64 emulator these days.
<darkgreen> I miss the adventure / problem solving games like zelda/metroid
<darkgreen> Quake and UT2004 are nice, but seem shallow
<Manyfold> darkgreen: try the longest journey
<darkgreen> thanks
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