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Comments:
<0> there's also #apache if you have apache problems
<1> or an if statement ?
<2> ppl i asked in a lot of channels
<2> :)
<3> why recreate another, higher level language, in an already high-level language?
<1> it: exactlyh :-)
<1> php is far more than sufficient.
<4> <3> why recreate another, higher level language, in an already high-level language?
<4> I can already see we're talking about Smarty :P
<4> =)
<1> the question was: html with embedded php? or php that outputs html? and, all that I can think, is how much is phpish and how much is html.. if it's 99% html with 1 var, then php embedded in html.. but if there's lots of ifs, loops, vars, then probably php to output html.
<3> kuja: indeed :)
<1> kuja: you're quick.
<4> Smarty is... gay :)
<1> any comments?
<1> (my last line, not the smarty is gay line)
<3> anyway, absentia: i generally use a balance between the two - if there are large blocks of pure HTML, with little spurts of PHP here and there, then i use PHP in HTML, if its the oposite, i use HTML in PHP
<5> absentia: php embedded in html, while modification and output is strictly divided
<1> ok, that's what I figured.
<4> Hm, a template engine really only needs just *one* thing.
<4> Placeholders (variables)
<3> kuja: replacements
<4> Right
<5> and loops
<3> Bazzi: nonsense
<1> and if statements
<3> :)
<4> No, why the **** would you want loops
<5> yessense
<4> You create extra templates for that
<5> in order to save templates
<3> and a C compiler, thats what i want in my templating engine
<1> c++
<4> Bazzi: Save templates and increase logic? Oh gee, how redundant.
<5> ya well having 10,000 1-line templates isnt going to help much eihter
<3> absentia: the ++ is a plugin
<1> :-O
<3> absentia: :)
<4> I still fail to see what moron would want looping capabilities in their templates
<5> and if simple loops and simple ifs are too much logic, then theres something very wrong
<5> presentational logic is afterall---logic
<4> Yes, it's too much, and no, there's nothing wrong.
<4> Looping is not presentation logic
<3> Bazzi: i agree, i do use loops & ifs in my templating engine: <?php for(){} if(){} ?>
<4> Can you loop in HTML? No. Is HTML presentation logic? Yes.
<3> :)
<4> Get your facts straight, and get a dictionary for the sake of you and all others like you. I think you got your logic wrong.
<5> well
<4> There is no well.
<5> if html is all you need, why using php? you gotta use loops
<4> There's no point in arguing, cause in this field you will always be wrong.
<3> haha
<6> at the end of the day, I'm more willing to let someone who knows nothing but HTML play with a smarty template than the PHP backend
<4> Bazzi: You use loops in PHP, not in templates.
<5> it's at least unpractical.
<3> "Everyone is entilted to an oppinion, but you have to understand your opinion is wrong"
<4> Smarty does some good things, but it does way more bad things.
<7> or you show them what a for loop and an if statement looks like and let them use PHP :)
<6> you can edit my PHP without knowing a drop of HTML, and you can edit my smarty templates without knowing a drop of PHP
<4> I feel that Smarty's modifiers might be a good idea, where the presented result isn't destroyed or unreadable but instead enhanced.
<4> But loops and conditionals? It's like, why the **** would you ever need that?
<5> dannyp: you do need to know php to edit smarty - a garbled php maybe
<5> kuja: I find <table> foreach($row...) <tr>...</tr> endforeach </table> way better than having a template for a <tr>
<4> The point of templates is to make presenting easier in an abstracted way, not to *control* the presentation itself.
<3> i'm going off to make a rediculous cl***
<1> cl*** to do what ?
<4> Bazzi: Good god, use a template, let PHP cache it, end of story, designer is happy without having to learn anything knew except variable syntax.
<3> absentia: i dunno yet, we'll see when it comes out hte otherside :)
<4> new*
<5> kuja: designer has nothing to do with them anyway
<4> Template designers, sure they do.
<1> I made a cl*** to vold variables in an array so I can Cl***Name->var .. and I made the _get routine have the isset() ... so I didn't have to wrap everything with isset in 30,000 lines of code.
<5> and designer doesnt understand a quadzillion of snippets as well
<4> Snippets of what?
<3> absentia: hehe, nice... i had one similar to do so, but i lost it somewhere.... probably better i lost it :)
<5> a template for each ****ing possible way of a row of a table for example
<1> mine is slick
<1> since constants are broken in php
<1> mine has a thing where I can "LOCK CONSTANTS" and it won't let you change vars that are ALL CAPS... but you can set lock constants to falst, set your constants, and then lock'm back. :-)
<4> Bazzi: So, a ****ed up template can hinder your presentation, you want that?
<5> abstraction for abstraction's sake isn't making the world better
<8> Bazzi: wouldn't something like <table><tr repeat="$l $listvar"><td>$l['id']</td><td>$l['name']</td></tr></table> be easy to use
<8> that's still a template
<3> absentia: hehehehe
<1> so now I can say MyCl***->ROOT_PATH = $root . "/" . $next; ... // whereas I can't do that with define.
<5> GarethAdams: well exchange repeat with foreacha nd you got mine
<3> absentia: when you're doing "private $variable, $variable, $variable;" thats correct, right? its comma delimeted?
<1> I do one per line
<8> yes, but mine can be made in a wysiwyg editor and a designer can make it ;)
<5> kuja: wrong HTML can screw presentation as well
<8> but you need a template system to parse it properly
<4> Bazzi: Yeah, well it's much less to worry about than ****ed up template syntax.
<1> and I have almost 0 variables... mostly just one called "values" .. and i has to be public for the damn php cl*** engine to work with inheritance (something 'bout a copy constructor)
<4> A combination of the two would just screw you over
<5> GarethAdams: well WYSIWYG editors dont belong there :/
<4> So really, minimize the flexibility a template designer can have.
<1> my php code is just 'bout to p*** 20,000 lines.
<8> Bazzi: I used to think that too
<5> minimize template designers
<5> to templating CSS
<1> we template our css
<4> Well, I agree with that.
<1> but I don't do that part.
<4> CSS is growing enough where it's a monster now.
<9> how to get the php version and the OS?
<3> kuja: how so?
<1> you couldn't pay me enough to do css -- its bad enough that i have to do html (and php)
<4> A good HTML structure will allow CSS to take care of the rest.
<4> itrebal: Ever seen csszengarden or whatever?
<3> Drakas: it'd be in phpinfo
<5> the part I often like to take is the man in control of the html/php templates, so if a designer needs an extra div for designing his css stuff, he might get it added.
<3> kuja: that websites amazing
<9> itrebal : in runtime ;p
<1> ok, back to coding
<3> Drakas: hehehe
<9> i want to output it to the client
<4> itrebal: If it were only that easy, you could really eliminate templates unless you're templates need to do something special that CSS can't
<4> your*
<3> Drakas: look in phpinfo, the variable is probably in there somewhere
<5> but eventually I get to do the CSS anyway because most designers cannot handle it well :(
<3> kuja: yea, thats true
<4> I presume CSS3 will be... *awesome*
<5> ...once IE supports it
<10> Whats this? CSS3?
<4> Bazzi: What the **** *does* IE support?
<4> :P
<3> CSS .75
<4> ;)
<5> IE7 supports CSS 1.25 ;)
<3> hehehe
<9> itrebal not there
<3> Drakas: i dunno, then
<9> PHP_VERSION :P
<11> hm, I need to use the reflection cl*** to get all the public members in (cl***Name), how could I accomplish this?
<9> robert_ i forgot the answer to your question, look in the manual
<12> i know. i will get n RTFM. bit i need to know just one thing: <a href="ftp://anonymous@<?php $ip = getenv('SERVER_NAME'); echo $ip ?>" target="_blank">Download via ftp</a>, how to get the IP adress?
<9> robert_ : get_object_vars
<11> ah
<9> hanz : http://pear.php/net/packages/Net_DNS_Resolver
<11> Drakas: I'm going to be using reflection to extract all 'exported' API functions inside a cl***
<9> hanz : http://pear.php.net/package/Net_DNS_Resolver
<9> robert_ i don't use php5, sorry
<12> Drakas: thx but 404
<9> hanz the second one ;)
<11> ah
<3> absentia: i turned out for no reason making a Table cl***
<12> i knw :)
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