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Comments:
<0> Thank you for stating the obvious. I know what Ajax is.
<1> Hi
<0> I won't use it because it's DHTML
<2> deadroot: there are also users that do not have javascript enabled
<1> anyone willing to write an app for a great project in PHP?
<0> And users who are using legacy browsers.
<1> can be 20 hours work or so
<3> in anycase, i don't understand what is the problem. in your example, you want the script to return immediately and tell the user that the server is working on it. that's a natural situation for ajax
<0> Talad: Sure, $75.00 an hour.
<4> !+g7
<5> Guideline #7) No spam, bots, scripts, trolls, job postings (includes asking for work), advertisements or onjoin/away/back messages.
<1> it's an Open Source project, so no salary
<6> and users without eye balls, fingers, monitors or keyboards..
<2> Talad: ha!
<1> eh
<0> deadroot: I would like them to be able to perform the operation and shut down the browser.
<0> Immediately.
<0> P***ing the processing to the client side to perform multiple tasks is irresponsible.
<6> shutdown the browser ?
<2> deadroot: he's referring to background processes that could, for instance, take 5 minutes to accomplish (you know, recursively go through a directory and do some ****)
<3> Etriaph: i still don't see what's wrong. the xmlhttprequest will still be sent and the server will still work on it, esp if you configure php to ignore browser shutdown requests.
<1> anyone interested?
<2> you dont want the user to sit through staring at a loading bar the whole time
<0> deadroot: And how would I stop a user from turning off his computer?
<0> Using DHTML to perform background tasks is like asking the 82nd Airborne to fight with kites.
<0> It's a bad idea.
<2> deadroot: remote scripting is useful to get ALOT of information FAST .. in other words .. if you want to query 50 servers in 10 server increments
<4> Etriaph: 1) Why can't you have a cronjob for everything where a cronjob is the best solution? 2) You're wrong. PHP *can* p*** work off to a background process and tell the user it's "being worked on".
<2> so the user can get information, while it is coming in
<6> Etriaph: what an odd analogy, but perhaps #ajax is the place for such discussion
<1> ok, thanks anyway. see you
<3> Etriaph: it's an asynchronous request. it doesn't matter if the entire neighbourhood has a blackout immediately after the user pressed the submit button. once the server gets the request, it can process it
<0> TML: 1) A 4000 line PHP script being executed every minute to handle all of my tasks is a bad idea. And they can't be simultaneous or multi-threaded. 2) How?
<4> Etriaph: A 4000 line PHP script is probably a bad idea in general.
<6> Etriaph: I would think you need to refactor your code
<0> You're not paying attention.
<7> wow 4000 is a big number
<6> I think you have a poor grasp on fundamentals
<0> Our CMS has multiple operations going on in the background at a time.
<3> Artnez: remote scripting isn't the only way to request large datasets
<0> Thousands of requests.
<6> OMGZOR
<0> How is a cronjob going to help?
<7> fork() fork() fork() fork()
<3> Artnez: remote scripting can also do requests
<7> :D
<6> Etriaph: are all 4000k lines going to be called for some menial cleanup you are doing every minute ?
<0> Chameleon22: Very funny.
<6> Etriaph: I think not spock
<0> It's not cleanup.
<4> Etriaph: You queue up *ALL* operations in a persistent storage such as a database. Once per <x>, you go through the database and perform all queued operations.
<6> 4000,000,000,00 trillion characters of code?!
<7> while(1){maloc(10);fork();} // yeah baby... YEAH
<0> TML: What if I want 5 threads doing the operations at a time?
<8> how can i view my memo's?
<0> I can't with PHP.
<8> i have a memo for the first time ever..
<6> Etriaph: you cant
<4> Etriaph: Then you're looking at the problem the wrong way.
<0> LOL
<0> PHP isn't designed to do that.
<0> And I need to.
<7> Etriaph, WTF?! you can NOT do threads in PHP
<6> Etriaph: others can, but you cant - instead of telling everyone how great you are, why dont you shut you face and listen
<0> It doesn't suit my needs, just accept that.
<7> PHP = no threads
<7> java = threads
<7> php = no threads
<9> NET||abuse, hehe, ask memoserv for help? :]
<4> Etriaph: if you're already convinced it doesn't suit your needs, then go away.
<0> I think PHP is a great scripting language, I said that earlier, stop being so defensive. :D
<0> I've been writing PHP code since 98
<2> You people need to chill out. I was actually having a discussion with Etriaph about what PHP can or can't do.
<4> Etriaph: If I sound defensive, it's because your FUD can spread to innocent members of the channel who don't know better.
<0> Until I had to write a really huge application like this one, it was never a problem.
<3> TML: you're being overly defensive
<0> But PHP just isn't for every situation.
<4> deadroot: No, I'm not.
<4> Etriaph: No one said it was. In fact, I'm the first person here to say it's NOT.
<7> Etriaph, jokes a side, what was the original q.?
<0> OK, so what are you complaining about? :D
<7> Etriaph, pm me to avoid repeating here
<2> Chameleon22: It was mine. I asked if anyone read this article: http://maurus.net/work/php-****s/
<4> Etriaph: I'm complaining about your untrue and misleading statements that may confuse people here who might not know better.
<6> for the newer ppl here, no its not normal to have a script with 4000 lines
<0> /nickserv identify iljjea
<0> errr..
<0> Stupid kopete
<10> All I want to know is, what does FUD stand for?
<4> Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt
<2> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2005-09,GGGL:en&q=define%3A+FUD
<2> :P
<6> and having a super uver line count does not indicate "anything", besides sloppy architecture/planning most of the time
<10> There's an acronym for that?
<6> super uber :)
<7> Artnez, %b language bashing is unproductive and silly
<4> kambei: Yes. It's FUD.
<10> So it is.
<2> Chameleon22: what did i do wrong? i'm losing ya...
<9> cat *.php | wc -l
<9> 3666
<9> ;p
<0> OK. TML, first of all.
<6> Rhizome: thats ok, so long as its not 4000
<7> Artnez, nothing, just stating about people who do language bashing (not you)
<0> Your contextual comments on the conversation I was having didn't fall under the pretense of the original conversation.
<9> p0windah: That was only one directory :/
<6> Rhizome: you need to have all of that code crammed into one file
<0> My original point was this: PHP does not do certain things. I named what they were and why I thought it was lacking, and then spoke about how I solved them with another platform. That was it.
<0> Then everyone argued with me. :D
<9> p0windah, oh right, what happens then? :)
<4> Etriaph: You said PHP cannot run a background process. This is as false as can possibly be.
<11> Calling all application devleopers. When you build an application, and you want to be able to give the user the ability to edit the application settings, how would store the settings, xml file, databse ? Thanks
<6> Rhizome: then you attain the awesome power that is, Etriaphness
<0> TML: Does PHP have a persistent application context that starts when PHP starts?
<4> Ginja_Ninja: XML files, as a general rule, are easier to read than to write.
<4> Etriaph: No. Do you need one to run a background process? No.
<12> okay guys, this is the question you have _all_ been waiting for.. the _ULTIMATE_ question in which you were all born to answer...
<6> Etriaph: I'm still curious what the function of your 4000lines of code that needs to be called every 60 seconds is actually doing
<12> What PHP book do you recommend?
<4> tama00: php.net/manual
<0> p0windah: That was a response to someone's comment, I'll explain in a sec...
<4> tama00: Nearly every PHP book out there is 80% a reprint of that content.
<12> TML, well can you buy that printed?
<2> tama00: get the PDF
<11> TML: Hmm, so u would have a seperate xml file for each application. Seems logical. And php has no problem in reading xml files when the app is run to fetch the settings?
<12> Artnez, i dont wanna print it myself!
<0> TML: I stated quite clearly that I could write PHP scripts as cron jobs, but that I didn't *want* to. I don't want to use a database to queue data for processing. I want the application to share the same memory space as the background process.
<2> tama00: why not its not fun
<2> *its fun
<12> that will cost me like $200
<2> :P
<4> tama00: You can print it, and you can go to Kinko's and get them to print and bind it for much cheaper than any PHP book I can think of offhand.
<12> where the hell is kinkos
<6> Etriaph: consider memcached then
<0> p0windah: If I had to write one script in a cronjob that would perform all of the operations I regularly perform, that script would be m***ive. That was my point.
<4> tama00: Kinkos.com, or find a local company that provides the same service.
<12> bah, why dont they just publish that manual as a book!
<0> p0windah: It's not one or two things I'm doing in the background, it's half of the application.
<4> tama00: Because we're not in the business of publishing books.
<12> TML, yeah umm i dont live in america
<2> TML: ... we?
<13> hy! i have a problem with headers... http://pastebin.com/574586
<4> tama00: There are companies like Kinkos all over Europe and Asia
<4> Artnez: Yes, we, the PHP developers.
<12> TML, i dont think many writers publish books either, thats why they get book publishers..
<12> im in australia
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