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Comments:
<0> merlyn: thanks for the book man :)
<1> that's why I laughed when you asked about damian
<0> lol, yea, now i get it
<2> merlyn: Would you like to be Damian? :)
<1> I've written forewords for his books, and he's written forewords for mine
<0> is Tom Phoenix here too?
<3> any thoughts on the Storable issue?
<1> No. Tom Phoenix doesn't IRC except under force.
<3> Storable/Dumper issue that is
<0> lol, i see
<1> Yeah, you have to write a serializer if you use IOO
<2> merlyn: The same was once said about Larry, but he's on IRC, and not even under force.
<1> because the cl*** itself needs to give you permission to get to the guts
<1> No. Larry was not on IRC because he didn't see the time ROI
<1> now he does.
<1> it wasn't that he would "never" use IRC
<2> Then I misunderstood that :)
<4> ROI?
<2> Regardless, the force thing has been said
<1> return on investment
<1> every minute Larry is on IRC might save 10 minutes of misunderstood or delayed email
<1> so larry on irc is a good thing
<2> I personally think the ROI of IRC is incredibly ineffeciently balanced
<2> However, it tends to cover different subjects than email does
<1> true
<1> the downside of IRC is being very transient
<3> Maybe i can borrow some code from Cl***::Std::Storable so my IOO is Storable but still has few dependencies
<1> so the fluidity is both a bleesing and a curse
<2> merlyn: "the downside", as if there is only one ;)
<0> well, since you guys seem to know about all these book, let me ask you your advice on something. Note that I'm doing perl most for CGI, and probably will keep going down that path for the next few months. I've got "PBP", "Advanced Perl Prg", "Perl Obs Refs and Mods", and "Perl DBI". I've also got ~half of "Programming Perl" to read. Which order should I read/finish those in? (And I do intend to read all of them)
<1> I'm writing up a talk on various communication means for open source projects
<1> especially ones that don't meet face to face.
<2> merlyn: Wiki's can be very, very useful, given the right wiki software.
<1> rutski89 - google my columns for CGI
<0> merlyn: cool, will do
<1> Yes - wiki is on the list for sure
<1> google site:stonehenge.com CGI
<2> I myself have experienced several wiki based projects that ****ed until kwiki was replaced with mediawiki :(
<1> yes... kwiki is becoming very uninteresting
<1> mediawiki rocks
<2> Yeah, too bad it's PHP, and written like any typical PHP program.
<1> and uses mysql. yuck.
<3> i set up TWiki on our corporate intranet. works well.
<1> I had to have mysql running on my laptop just for it. ugh.
<1> it's like running python code or something.
<1> I'm working for $large_client that uses TWiki for everything
<0> I don't like MySQL either. In fact, I don't like SQL very much at all
<2> merlyn: Well, mysql for mediawiki suffices mostly.
<1> and I can now say, it ****s!
<1> compared to mediawiki...
<2> Twiki ****s indeed.
<1> don't forget to cap the W
<2> The fun with PHP programmers is that they know what web users think like, somehow.
<1> Twiki - character on buck rogers
<0> SQL is way to overused for simple tasks where less complicated methods should be used
<1> TWiki = wiki software
<3> TWiki ****s? how so?
<2> They make interfaces that seem ****y, but actually are easier to use.
<1> linuxnohow - spend a few weeks viewing and updating changed pages on wikipedia
<2> I fail to understand how PHP people can have such good feeling for interfaces, as their programming language has such an awful one.
<0> phpBB is pretty good
<1> then compare that to all of your twiki experiece
<1> you'll see that mediawiki is far better.
<2> rutski89: All fora are more or less the same.
<1> I'm also going to talk about NNTP
<2> I'm going to set up a wiki this weekend
<1> NNTP rocks, compared to $this_weeks_forum_software
<2> It's going to be mediawiki of course.
<1> and email<->nntp gateways really help
<2> merlyn: Yeah, there should just be a good and usable nntp web interface, for forum lovers.
<0> Juerd: maybe all the good ones are more or less the same. But i've definitely come across some really bad ones
<0> nntp = usenet?
<1> modern forum software is reinventing usenet, but badly
<2> merlyn: But all that exist ****, except for Google's, which also ****s, but much less, and is entirely closed.
<1> and without remembering what we learned. :)
<2> merlyn: Modern software (forum, nntp, email) mostly ****s up the perfect system of >-quotation :(
<1> and blogs are sideways. I don't want to subscribe to *people*. I want to subscribe to *topics*.
<1> not to mention that a point-to-point distro doesn't scale.
<1> usenet got all of that correct.
<2> Well, I do want to subscribe to some people
<2> People I know IRL
<5> and yet there is far more interest around forums and blogging than there is around making usenet work
<2> It's become much easier to know what people do, and that saves valuable time when you meet in real life.
<0> Theory: it's the Blog fad :-p
<0> or should I say " :( "
<2> "So, what have you been up to lately" is going away from small talk.
<6> how do i ignore that \n is readed by STDIN?
<1> blogs give soapboxes to everyone
<1> usenet merely gave rooms to groups of everyone
<2> roka: Just don't pay attention. That's how ignoring usually works.
<0> roka: chomp
<1> that's why blogs are popular for the "me" generation
<2> merlyn: I'm in that generation, and I really don't mind.
<1> exactly. :)
<0> roka: my $var = chomp(<>) will read 1 line of STDIN into $var sans the \n.
<1> rutski89 - NO
<0> really?
<1> please to not be giving advice until another week.
<1> at least. :)
<2> Though I'd argue that each generation has its own kind of arrogance.
<6> rutski89, ty
<1> otherwise, we gotta correct you
<1> like now
<1> chomp(my $var = <STDIN>)
<0> roka: wait, no i was wrong
<1> your answer was wrong on two levels
<1> maybe three
<2> rutski89: Though what you said SHOULD be how Perl works, it isn't. :)
<6> ok
<1> <> is not stdin, unless there's no @ARGV
<1> chomp acts on a var, not a value
<0> merlyn: hehe, ok, i wont, but i was so sure about that one
<1> chomp doesn't return the chomped, it returns 1
<1> three
<2> merlyn: Yea, and that's quite silly.
<1> so rutski89, my advice to you is to back off on advice until you've coded enough perl first.
<1> otherwise, we just gotta correct you and it takes time.
<1> "enthusiastic newbie syndrome"
<1> purlgurl never left that stage. :)
<2> It's okay to help people even if you don't know what you're doing. But then, please TEST your solutions first :)
<2> And as IRC is way too fast to test things (others will beat you to it), consider perlmonks.org
<1> Exactly what Juerd said
<1> And in perlmonks, you'll know when you were wrong. And it'll be labeled as such
<2> Which is annoyingly unlike nntp :)
<1> right. nntp to monks would ROCK
<1> I *so* want to have killfiles and subscriptions on monks
<1> instead, it's clumsy frickin web crap.
<2> It's the perfect example of a PHP-minded programmer not having PHP at his disposal.
<7> Hi
<1> at least the RAT interface is almost usable
<2> If PHP existed when Everything was written, it would have been written in PHP, and we would never have had perlmonks.
<0> merlyn: heh, ok. Well... I'll still give advice, but only after testing that it works myself :-p how about thaat?
<1> But I still want to be able to say "back up another hour"
<1> and they don't provide that
<1> rutski89 - yes, please test first.
<1> and always understand the context of the question. we get a fair amount of XY problems here
<2> Hey.
<1> perlbot, XY problem
<8> They ask how to do X, but that's because they really want to do Y but think X will get them there and most of the time they are WRONG
<1> perlbot, XYZ problem
<8> <reply>They ask how to do Z, but that's because they think they want to do Y and think that Z will get them there, but really it's because they're a lunkhead, and that's the main (X) problem
<7> I'm having strange problems with patterns that aren't supposed to be patterns...
<0> lol, i see
<2> The new few-houses-removed neighbours have a cute son.
<7> I've got a file with a few packages in it
<2> Oh, he smokes. Darn it!
<7> when I try to compile the file, it gives an error about an unmatched ( in regex
<7> but the line it gives, 90, doesn't contain any regex at all
<2> Khisanth: This isn't calendar related.
<1> an example of an XY problem is "how do I get a variable that is named by another variable"
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