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Comments:
<0> yo ppl
<1> eieio: hey
<1> http://yuriks.dyndns.org:9090/~yuriks/yurix-logo.png
<1> what you think of the logo?
<0> hi yuriks
<0> it's clean and kinda retro lookin
<0> not bad
<2> also, might be a little early to be worrying about a logo
<1> hehe, yeah
<1> but I was tired of working on it and decided to take a break and make it in inkscape
<0> true, we just made a first concept logo for monarc and it's been over a year in development
<0> http://monarc.coreytabaka.com/
<1> heh
<1> that site is kinda.... empty =P
<0> yeah, i haven't done much with the subdomain yet except to put the logo up. the project page is still at http://www.coreytabaka.com/index.php?r_s=541&r_p=543&flog_id=13
<1> btw
<1> the DHTML thing is broken
<0> it's IE only :-p
<1> oh =P
<3> eieio, 'we' ?
<0> recently a graphic designer friend of mine started working on interface elements for the configuration interface
<0> he decided he wanted to try some logo ideas out as well
<0> so he and I make 'we'
<4> spunge
<3> eieio, couldn't you hack monarc to run macosx for x86 on non-macs (should be even easier, since no code translation is needed) ? or to run multiple oses in parallel (with hardware ***isted virtualization) ?
<0> umm, well yeah i probably could. though intel macs aren't really anything like ppc macs, so i'd have to implement most of the hardware core from scratch.
<0> but at least the PCI translation layer would still be valid
<3> I see
<0> and the binary translator would probably be a bit more efficient
<3> and you would become instantly famous :)
<0> some how i doubt that ;-)
<3> you're kidding ? running macos on a pc, that's worth a front page on slashdot to say the least
<0> hmm, well i didn't get much attention for doing it with a PPC OSX
<0> i guess with x86 OSX it would be a little more timely
<0> heh, binary transalting a binary translator doesn't work very well (read monarc doesn't run in vmware very well)
<5> Breaking news: A few of us from the other #osdev now have official control of osdever.
<5> Site should have some more life soon :)
<6> Cody`macbook: using h4x?!
<0> he said official
<6> tell it to the judge!
<5> xsism just handed the site over to me and I'm going to allow 1-2 of the other regulars that have been around for over 3 years help out
<5> news post going up right now
<1> Cody`macbook: great news =D
<5> http://osdever.net/ <-- proof
<5> You guys have any suggestions for what you'd like to see?
<1> Cody`macbook: put IRC info on the site
<1> for
<2> meep
<2> also moop
<0> yeah, no one has much up-to-date info on meep/moop
<5> yuriks: done
<5> meep/moop?
<2> that is teh ****
<1> that java applet is kinda unecessary tho I think, heh
<5> meh gets people
<5> irc info is there
<5> if they want to use something else
<1> yeah
<1> I couldn't remember the network name the other day, then I tryed acessing the page and found out it was still there hehe
<5> lo _TomB
<5> giest: meep/moop
<5> ?*
<2> oop
<2> moop even
<5> oh
<5> I got you now
<1> hehe
<2> excellent
<2> you speak the universal language of meep/moop
<1> "We speak the binary language of moisture evaporators."
<7> btw
<7> was it kill -9 PID ?
<1> ysah
<7> not PPID?
<1> er?
<0> make -C modules/vm86test
<0> oops focus
<1> hmm, some stuff
<1> on paging, if I divide the memory into 3GB/1GB to userspace/kernel, then the kernel part stays on memory at all the times?
<2> that's usually how it's done, yes
<2> keep the kernel mapped from 0xc0000000 or something
<2> and then when an int or exception happens, the kernel is already mapped
<8> hi
<1> hi
<1> damn
<1> I'm bored
<1> VERY bored
<8> write an exploit or 30?
<1> nah
<1> I'm bored in the "not feeling like doing anything" sense
<8> tired+board is the worst.
<1> yeah
<8> there are some fun lisp machine emulators that p*** the time nicely
<1> I'm sorta like that
<8> and you might inadvertantly learn something while not expecting it.
<1> meh
<1> not feeling like it
<1> I was feeling like doing some "pseudo-bbs" interface in python
<1> but not quite feeling like it
<8> if you need a python fix, there's OLPC. lots of new python bits
<8> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_images_for_emulation
<1> meh
<1> =[
<1> if just could I instantly GET! paging all at once
<1> then I would make this memory manager an move to very intersting things
<8> hmm.. whats not to get? you have a bunch of numbered pieces of paper, and you have a big cork board with a grid for putting papers on it
<8> and you can put the papers anywhere on the board (in their grid spot)
<1> I dunno
<1> I can't find good documentation anywhere
<8> if you're reading the board and you want to read or write on a square where there's no paper, you have a little dance you do to figure out what paper to put there
<1> newsham: yeah, I got paging already (I already knew what it was/did) but I have no ideia how to use it
<1> I expressed myself wrongly
<8> you probably (well most people do) want to implement a virtual memory system where you only need a subset of the memory to be resident at a time.
<1> yeah, just without swap =P
<8> with some types of pages that are read only and come from somewhere else (like the binary file on disk)
<8> so that you can freely throw them away when you need to (since you can recreate)
<1> it's just that I can't find docs on the actual pagin tables and registers
<8> and other types of pages that can be written on (so that their data must be backed up)
<8> which cpu?
<1> and looking on the intel docs is like searching for a needle on a haystack
<1> x86
<8> ia32's vol3 docs have info on ohw the hardware works
<1> yeah, I read the entire section on memory protection already
<1> or are the details somewhere else?
<8> the only thing about reading ia32 docs is you have to ignore lots of extra features that arent relevant
<1> yeah, more to the haystack
<8> since its sort of a everything-plus-kitchen-sink ordeal
<8> chapter 3 of vol 3 should be it.
<8> i wonder if you can find a paper somewhere that describes some simple paging code for ia32
<8> because then it would skip all the segmentation stuff you dont need to know :)
<1> I read all the chapter 3
<1> didn't find everything I wanted to know, onl the stuff I did already =P
<1> for example
<1> where is the format of page tables and directories? what are the relevant registers? etc
<8> see figure 3-12?
<1> I do now
<8> page-directory entry and page table entry on figure 3-14
<1> ohh
<8> so you have CR3 (register) pointing to a page directory, and inside that are entries that point to page tables, and inside a page tabel are entries that point to pages
<1> I think I just get bored while reading it and then start to not remember stuff
<8> that tree structure is used as a lookup from virtual page -> phys page
<8> the offset part of an address is p***ed through unaffected
<1> mhm
<8> if you want some code to look at thats small and simple.. the VSTa code should be pretty reasonable.
<1> what's a good small test to do on paging?
<1> I mean, imeplement it and see if it's working right
<1> alias the same phys addr to two pages?
<8> hmm.. by hand map some area for your code, copy your code there, and jump to it.
<1> hmm
<1> thanks man
<8> then write a page fault handler that will fill a certain range of virtual memory with blank pages when a fault occurs
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