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Comments:
<0> what a wonderful niiiiiight
<0> with alpha blended clouds on the skyyyyy
<1> gr00ber, why did you exclude fp-arithmetic? Isn't that somewhat limiting to the "user"?
<1> Unless you have explicit compiler-support, that is.
<0> no, i said the kernel
<0> that's normal
<1> ah! alright.
<0> user space have fp obviously, but waaay to expensive for kernel threads :)
<1> at least for rendering. true.
<0> the real cost is in the context switch; lots of more state to save if many kernel threads use fp, mmx, sse
<0> which is why almost all kernels avoid it like the plaugue
<1> hm. why do render in kernelmode at all?
<0> which is sad, since a lot of the sse ops can be extremely handy in lots of graphics stuff
<0> wobster, no need
<0> although speed matters
<1> hm? I thought you'd be doing right that.
<0> some graphics interfaces require port i/o for certain stuff; inducing a syscall each time sux
<0> anyway, this graphics stuff is currently just for fun and to get some basics in place; been sidetracking myself basically
<0> going back to the ip stack real zoon ;)
<1> heh' .. we want screenshots!!
<0> but that's way to much work to do in one sweep
<0> wobster, yay, it's a logo and a mouse cursor :)
<1> I've seen worse os-screens, dude ;)
<0> i figure i'll add a terminal window for fun before i put the graphics thingy on the shelf for now
<0> the vmware adapter has glyph support so it should be trivial
<1> glyph-support in what way?
<0> as in you can define font glyphs and index them
<1> cool
<0> then reference/draw them into the fifo by index ref
<0> and since my kernel is unicode, i should be able to see my native letters too :)
<1> I hacked libreetype once for vector-glyph support ..
<1> freetype
<0> right
<2> w0bster and groober
<0> i may integrate freetype
<1> oh well. happy hacking. takin' a nap now. cu later groob.
<0> cu
<2> gn me too
<1> yeah. do that. looks awesome and is relatively slim ..
<1> cu mur
<3> hello
<4> hi :)
<5> yo
<6> hi
<7> morning
<8> I am confused as to...
<8> the types on the GDT.. 9Ah and 92h..
<8> where do these numbers come from?
<9> the intel manual
<8> hehe
<8> okay.. I'll have to find mine.. oh wait they're over there..
<8> I found GDTR..hmm ...
<8> oh
<8> Code and Data Segment descriptor types
<8> so 92 is Data Read/Write, 9A is Code Execute/Read
<8> :O?
<9> good
<10> hi
<11> Hmm
<11> Hopefully you guys are not idling
<11> on the x86, when in 16bits mode and using the "Address Prefix"
<11> What happens?
<11> does it result in: A) [address is a dword].word (data's a word), B) [address is a word].dword (data's a dword), or C) [address is a dword].dword (data's a dword)
<9> good question
<9> no idea. test it out and see
<11> Coded somewhat of a dynamic recompiler for running 16bit proggies
<11> Can enter VESA in Pmode but there are still some bugs due to these "inaccuracies"
<11> (Yes yes, I took the long way instead of just using V86 mode)
<9> ah
<9> i futzed with that a few years back
<9> got it to work fine on a few emulators but not my test machine
<9> and seeing as it was just slightly above being something i completely didn't care about, i gave up
<11> What I'm really doing is simple really... I decode the opcodes into a "simpler form"... mov sreg, r/m16 let's say becomes just: mov dword [dest], [src]
<11> (all the variables in the emulator are addressed through memor addresses)
<11> anyways, that's p***ed to an asm function which does the operation + logs the flag data
<11> memory*
<12> It's somehow funny when people refers to 'functions', even if they have lots of side effects. :)
<12> Can't you guys just talk about procedures, actions or methods (depending whether you do OO or not), they all really have their correct names!
<9> SANiK: oh i misread. you're interpreting the video bios
<9> bravo. carry on
<12> pessimistic guessing is really efficient sudoku algorithm.
<12> the principle goes so that you find out a place where certain number would not bring game forward any bit, usually it is on that place.
<11> I think I can conclude the answer to my question from studying differences in nasm output. data size=controlled by operand prefix, address size=controlled by address prefix
<12> then when you have found few of those, it usually solves almost by itself after that.
<12> Hmm, maybe security at some point goes to exactly that position.
<12> you can solve them by finding out the most answer which you would least expect. :)
<12> pessimistic answer.
<12> And quite efficient exploitation from nature of problems.
<12> maybe there's also an another kind of 'truth' in it.
<12> The most efficient way of solving problems is not to solve them.
<12> Possibly you can go to great heights with that.
<9> the only winning move is not to play.
<12> that's not true.
<12> life is not zero-sum games.
<12> if you like losing it may be annoying fact that you can't really lose.
<9> how about a nice game of chess?
<12> actually I could take a round.
<12> but which chess client should I use?
<9> Global Thermonuclear War
<12> rats and cockroaches would win in that game more than me. :) No thanks.
<12> and it's not really game but a step.
<12> but if you really do not want to play chess, don't ask it.
<9> sigh. you're obviously not catching the wargames references
<9> you'd kick my *** at chess anyway. i totally ****
<12> hmm, maybe it's not really the point which you would least expect, you do not tend to expect worst possible choices unless you'd be pessimistic.
<13> morning
<14> How do I access a SATA hard disk (without using the BIOS)? I can't find any information on it, as it seems you have to pay money for it.
<15> heya
<16> woo kqemu is open source as of a few days ago
<17> what? where?
<18> yup, just emerged it last night :)
<16> trying to find cvs for it :)
<19> hi folks
<19> OOT, not so technical, in my country, so few people are actually interested on learning OS design...perhaps you can kindly share how or why you grow your interest in OS?
<19> so few here really means few...
<18> I think it's pretty rare everywhere
<19> and thanks in advance if any of your are willing to share
<19> a-priori: I did same guess too...but wonder why? too difficult? needs "extra imagination"?
<18> more common in universities and whatnot, but even then most CS students aren't interested
<20> perhaps "no need"
<18> a bit of both, I think, and yes, people don't see the point
<21> I like the challenge
<19> bluecode: I heard that kind of answers too randomly here in my environment
<18> "why would I write something that already exists and that you'll never finish?"
<21> yeah, versus "how cool would it be to run apps over a kernel I wrote?"
<21> plus you learn a lot along the way, anyway
<18> yeah, and I think that's where people differ
<19> if I am allowed to share a bit.. I can describe the approach here
<21> having said that, I've broken my vm
<18> people around here will say, "but *I* haven't done it before"
<19> the lecturer suddenly throw you tanenbaum book to read
<21> so I can't run apps ;)
<19> along with some OS "myths"
<19> so in a semester, instead of looking codes, you read "myths"
<18> what sort of "myths"?
<19> and when you see the reality, let's say Linux kernel, you're like shocked with 10000 Watts
<19> "
<21> it's not necessary to start completely from scratch. most sane people will take a bootloader that exists, for example, and you can take an existing kernel and gradually rewrite it or play with it. there's plenty of minimal oses out there
<18> yeah... in my case, I wrote a basic bootloader just to figure out how it works, then scrapped it and used GRUB :)
<21> I wasted a load of time trying to do a bootloader before doing grub
<19> a-priori: something like explaining about syscall, without actually explain how syscall is really done
<19> a-priori: so for those youngster, it's like imagining a magic that suddenly enter kernel space coming from nowhere
<18> they didn't talk about interrupts and whatnot?
<19> diodesign: seems like "wasting my time" is an initial cost before you gradually increase OS knowledge
<20> wouldn't that be to x86 specific?
<18> what, interrupts?
<20> software interrupts from user space...
<19> bluecode: which one? my saying about syscall?
<18> no, interrupts are used on every platform
<18> we used m68k in my OS cl***
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