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Comments:
<0> no idea
<1> Xach: characters.
<2> why would you use a string-output-stream for that?
<0> but you can tell because there's the perennial scheme debate about whether it ought to be list<-string for better composability
<0> Xach: I wouldn't; I was answering the string accumulation question and replying to nyef's answer to same
<3> Okay, cliki should be read-write again now.
<2> i'm not sure where the concatenating stuff comes from.
<3> No promises as to for how long, though, if that spam-and-revert war keeps up.
<2> ayrnieu, nyef: what's the bit about that?
<0> nyef: thanks. I've made my edit
<3> Should I re-lock it, then?
<0> I don't know; maybe other people want to edit stuff
<3> Yeah, but odds are they want to place ads for tramadol.
<0> if it's going to be locked on a long-term basis then it might be worth publicising that
<4> nyef: what is going on that you're blocking editing because of ads?
<3> jdroid-: Have a look at Recent Changes.
<3> Since about, say, last Friday.
<4> where do i look for that?
<4> oh, cliki.net/IRC?
<3> On cliki. At the top. There's a link marked "Recent Changes".
<4> oh ok. JEEZ!
<4> I get a lot of that kind of thing in comments on my blog.
<3> Uh-huh. And my blog has a ton of that sort of trackback spam that I haven't gone in and killed yet.
<0> (publicising it, together with noting what version of cliki is currently running, might motivate interested parties to write code to perform various forms of filtering)
<3> Actually, I'm thinking about writing code to perform various forms of filtering myself. Along with fixing up some of the more egregious parts of the site configuration, and possibly improving various other bits of the system.
<2> your blog, or cliki?
<3> cliki.
<3> My blog I'm thinking about replacing with a static site.
<5> cliki was weritten in the dying days of a kinder gentler internet
<4> dan_b: so 10 years ago? :)
<5> summer 2000, so seven years ago
<3> I'm actually impressed at how stable cliki has been recently.
<4> close!
<3> Especially since it's still running fairly close to the same code it was when dan_b gave it to us.
<5> I'm somewhat impressed it still exists at all, actually
<4> do you guys have any write-ups on why cl'ers think people don't use better languages? i've had that discussion a lot lately and am looking for more info on it
<3> Is there an easier way to lock it for edit than redefining check-page-save-allowed?
<5> I used to use chmod
<3> Doesn't seem like it'd work with versioning.
<3> Oh, or did you mean for the entire directory?
<5> usually, yes
<3> So, chmod -w ~/var/www/cliki/ should do the trick?
<5> though it'll do _something_ with versioning provided that you protext the .titles file too
<5> erm (actualy I'm not sure that it'll dtrt, you may want toi test)
<0> jdroid-: there is normally an easier way of achieving people's aims than spending time building infrastructure to be able to start achieving their aims using Lisp
<3> Good enough. It throws an actual error rather tan just saying NIL, but it works.
<4> Xof: can you elaborate?
<0> (define "better", or perhaps define where a language stops and the rest of the world starts)
<4> hmm.
<5> in order that I coudl do the things I do at work in Lisp, I would need Lisp to do things that it presently does not
<5> (also and more importantly I would need to teach the language to five of my coworkers)
<5> and the benefit of this, given that I already /can/ do the things I do at work, is what?
<4> Well, a coworker and I discuss fairly regularly why java is so popular. I'm not sure we've broken new ground, but we generally come back to a few things. People think typing = productivity. Java is much like c, which most people know already. And other languages, like lisp, generally have very clever answers to problems and many people seem uninterested in clever solutions, only ones they think of first
<0> Java is popular because Sun spent many millions of dollars subsidising its development and uptake
<0> creating an environment where it could become self-sustaining
<4> sure
<2> They paid Luke Gorrie to make a comprehensive image loading/saving library for it!
<2> Lisp has to rely on losers like me.
<4> I don't know luke gorrie?
<5> "People think typing = productivity" because that's what they've been sold
<6> java is popular because the marketing department at sun did a better job than the java developers. also, there are many companies where the decision about what technology to use is made by someone other than the programmers
<2> jdroid-: luke gorrie is a very smart and good hacker.
<5> and because restricting what other people can do is an easy sale to managers, of course
<7> GORRIE Luke is an idol to many of us.
<4> ah, he's an erlang guy
<5> but you could easily do the same for a dynamic language if you bundled "test-driven programming" as part of the deal
<4> he wrote slime?!
<7> bits of it (:
<5> "typing only fixes part of the problem, you need to enforce that thre's a test case for each piece of code"
<2> jdroid-: that's like saying Feynman is "a bongo guy"!
<7> large, important bits (:
<4> Xach: :)
<7> Xach: was {-:
<0> dan_b: different value of "typing" I think
<2> that reminds me of a quote i saw and liked recently
<7> static typing is bad for your health
<2> >> The problem with [The Feynman Lectures on Physics] is you read it, and you say Yes! I understand this! Im doing physics! And then you try to solve a problem, and you find that, well, that youre not Feynman.
<7> you should type dynamically, and take regular breaks
<2> "Yes! I understand this! I'm doing Lisp!"
<4> seems appropriate
<4> oh neat. he works with joe armstrong.
<4> err.. did on the icfp project
<4> http://fresh.homeunix.net/ is hilarious!
<3> ... I don't get it. Why is it funny?
<8> is it meant to do something?
<3> It looks like a blank page with a background image, and that image too large to even get a stereogram effect from.
<8> possibly he's amused by cauliflower
<9> hee hee, cauliflower.
<3> Hrm... No cl-ppcre in here...
<3> clhs search
<10> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_search.htm
<11> clhs with-accessors
<10> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_acce.htm
<6> "casting spels" is a great lisp tutorial!
<6> have anyone here studied ai? is it fun?
<12> it can be
<3> ... Okay, my current interpretation of SEARCH is that it is required to accept all these keyword arguments, but the only one that actually -does- anything is :from-end.
<6> rahul: i am about to embark on my master's degree and i was going to study graphics... but i'm afraid i would end up in a windows vista/visual studio/c++ nightmare.. so i am thinking about AI
<12> AI can put you in that nightmare, too
<12> I was taught by a prof that is quoted on the back of AIMA
<12> we had to use some broken-*** microsoft bayesian-inference program for one ***ignment
<6> rahul: ack. well, the university i am going to apply to uses lisp.. i don't know any more than that
<12> granted, I got to do most of the rest of the cl*** in CL :P
<13> My computer graphics course was on DEC machines
<12> my graphics course was using java 3d
<12> and the prof had no clue how to write or understand java code
<13> We used C and Matlab
<12> he never graded the code. just on-screen results.
<6> rahul: my graphics course was taught by a mathematician who wrote C using C++ libraries
<9> rahul - huhn, your Java has an awful lot of parentheses in it. Unusual style -- but your graphics are *amazing*!
<12> vali: heh
<12> ayrnieu: doh!
<14> morning
<3> Hello beslyrus.
<0> ah, it's my favourite bioinformatician
<0> no, wait, my second favourite.
<0> I'll come in again
<14> damn
<0> sorry, but mjg59 has fixed my laptop more often than you have
<0> are you the kind of bioinformatician who knows stuff about string matching?
<14> I suppose that counts then
<14> yes, I have done a fair amount of string matching stuff, but not lately, however.
<14> what's up?
<0> what is apparently up is an inability to use privmsg
<14> and beirc's inability to delete an initial "/"
<12> their rubout handler isn't fancy enough
<12> already constructed the command object and now it's stuck with that
<0> you should get Athas to examine that; I'm sure it's a nasty test case for his input editor
<0> </nasty>
<12> I should try beirc some time
<6> rahul: is it possible to get a job if you study AI?
<7> goatee didn't have that problem, iirc
<7> vali: no, you're very likely to be replaced by a machine
<6> antifuchs: hehehhehe
<7> the bittersweetly ironic thing is, you're also very likely to have created that machine yourself
<6> antifuchs: only if i do my job, right?
<12> vali: sure
<15> right! long live incompetence!
<12> heh
<7> any other reason to study ai? (:
<12> vali: SRI and others hire plenty of AI people
<6> i don't know. i haven't seen any great demand for it, but i haven't been looking either
<12> Boeing, NASA
<15> vali: my advice is to study what you like to learn. It is very hard to predict what will be needed and what might no longer be needed a few years down the road.
<2> I think it would be cool to have a Lisp startup with Kenny Tilton and L. Ron Garrett
<15> Xach: cool indeed
<7> Xach: your definition of coolness fluctuates wildly
<6> beach: yes, that sounds like good advice. however, despite the fact that computer graphics interests me, i don't like the visual studio/c++ environment that i am likely to end up in
<2> Well, I think it would set up a good feedback loop.
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