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Comments:
<0> I'm hacking on output recording code, so I'm more concerned I've caused it myself.
<1> damn, i write a parser for html soup right now
<1> fixups for closing tags appearing without opening counterpart, etc
<2> _deepfire: feel free to improve the one in closure
<1> oh, i forgot about that completely
<1> uhhuh, my parser is two screenfuls right now. closure's sgml-parse.c is ~1800 lines with comments
<3> if my Lisp application relies on various libraries installed with asdf-install, where should I put all the (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :libname)'s ? Have some file called load.lisp and mandate that the user loads it before anything else?
<4> Cowmoo: make your system depend on those systems
<4> only the end user should be calling OPERATE
<3> rahul: sorry what do you mean (somewhat of a newbie here)
<4> Cowmoo: same way you make a file depend on another file, make the system depend on another system
<3> I guess I'll look up what OPERATE is..
<4> hmm?
<3> sorry I don't know how to make a file depend on another file, and so don't even know what you mean by making a system depend on another?
<2> Cowmoo: make an .asd file that describes the dependencies
<4> Cowmoo: you're using asdf... right?
<3> rahul: yes, my app depends on some libraries that are asdf-installable
<4> yeah, so write a .asd file with a defsystem
<3> ok, I'll look that up, thanks
<4> I thought that's what you were doing, since you were talking about asdf :P
<3> (thanks splittist too)
<1> what is the closure's :runes package provided by?
<3> also, in general, if my app consists of a bunch of .lisp files, obviously some have to be loaded before others...is that when a load.lisp would come in? or...?
<4> Cowmoo: that's what asdf does
<3> oh oh
<3> would be nice if PCL had something on this
<3> wait, it does..
<4> heh
<5> Cowmoo: read first, then comment
<3> yes.
<1> is it possible to convert a string stream to a binary stream?
<1> and vice versa
<6> _deepfire: yes, but you have to define what you mean by that?
<6> Is it a string containing base64 encoded binary data?
<6> uuencode?
<6> hex?
<1> just standard-chars
<1> cxml:parse-stream wants a binary stream
<6> Another problem in your question is that it'd be hard in standard CL to implement a "pipe" stream.
<1> where does one read on this stuff?
<6> You'd have to enforce some strong limitations, or to use gray streams or no stream at all.
<1> clhs and cltl2 are most unhelpful wrt streams
<6> _deepfire: in implementation specific docs.
<6> Some implementations have "bivalent" streams.
<7> pjb: what do you mean by "pipe" stream ?
<6> Or in some, you can change the stream-external-type on the fly.
<6> pipe stream = you have two stream, and what you write on one, you read from the other.
<1> pjb, i have a specific problem, in fact -- i have to provide a binary stream out of a string
<6> _deepfire: In what implementation?
<1> pjb, sbcl
<1> shall i go and read the sbcl impl doc?
<6> http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Bivalent-Streams.html
<6> Yes.
<1> oic, thanks!
<1> pjb, it appears that the suggestion described in that url directs one to use open -- and it wants to operate on a file, whereas i have a character stream or a string
<6> But you can perhaps make sure it is open with the :default external format?
<1> i wish there was a way to create these bivalent streams in a pipe form
<1> pjb, sorry, what is open?
<6> clhs open
<8> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_open.htm
<1> no, no
<6> Well, going down to the unix level, you can call pipe(2). But piping between oneself is dangerous (if you fill the buffer you can deadlock yourself).
<1> i mean, you said "you can make sure it is open" -- what is 'it'?
<2> _deepfire: has someone pointed you at flexi-streams?
<6> the stream.
<1> splittist, not sure
<1> splittist, thanks!
<6> _deepfire: Where do you get this stream from?
<1> pjb, i have a string, in fact
<1> i merely tried to go the with-open-string way, but cxml said it wants a binary stream
<6> Then you could easily write the string in a file, and reopen this file as binary.
<1> uh, this is, well, slighly awkward
<6> but portable ;-)
<1> i'll follow splittist's suggestion, i think..
<1> it seems that lisp is underspecified in this area
<4> lisp doesn't have bivalent streams, correct.
<4> but you can get them on any implementation, pretty much
<1> it feels like one should have this stream translation somewhat easier
<9> What is the derivation of the term `bivalent stream'?
<6> 2-valent stream?
<4> Riastradh: it can act as either of the two types, binary or character
<9> How does `valent' translate to `element type'?
<6> bivalent atoms can link to two other atoms
<9> I could understand `bivalent' meaning `input and output', but I don't see how `binary and text' are two distinct valences.
<6> a bivalent stream can link to two different way to see one file.
<9> pjb, yes, I know what the word means.
<9> I still don't see why the suffix `-valent' is used for two different ways to look at something.
<6> Perhaps because a simple implementation of them is to open the same file twice.
<1> it appears that "valence" == "the degree of combining power"
<1> but you can observe different combinatino spaces -- input/output space, and binary/string
<9> ...and I think it is very confusing for anyone who doesn't already know what a bivalent stream is. I am sometimes thrown off when I encounter the term because I don't use it very often.
<1> well, it is not a very obvious term, in this context, indeed. i do not claim to be a very inquisitive fellow, yet i got to know what 'bivalent stream' means only now
<1> after about a year and a half of first touching common lisp
<9> The ***ociation with chemistry doesn't help at all -- it only reinforces the idea that there are two connections to the object, meaning to me that it is either a simultaneous input and output stream, or a pipe, or something like that.
<1> i am inclined to agree, now
<4> it has to do with the ability to interact in two ways
<1> the valence in the context of 'bivalent stream' seems to refer to usage, rather than to essence
<1> rahul, again, that is too broad -- and bivalent is more specific
<9> I know, rahul. But I don't understand how that lends itself to the suffix `-valent'.
<1> iow, slightly but annoyingly imprecise
<4> 3. The ability of a substance to interact with another or to produce an effect.
<4> it interacts as both a binary and character stream
<10> "Bivalent", I thought, just meant "two-valued".
<4> rydis: more like two interactions
<4> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivalent_(engine) for example
<10> I was thinking of logic, mostly.
<4> valence comes from a latin word meaning capacity
<4> in the sense of capacity to do something
<11> _deepfire: how does your XML string represent characters?
<11> Does it use real unicode as lisp characters or does it use some encoding and pretend that those octets are characters?
<1> lichtblau, first
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