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Comments:
<0> z0d: :ID is a keyword... Perhaps it's a keyarg?
<1> :id is a keyword -> is a constant
<2> why do some keywords have what look like keywords as arguments? like :direction :output ?
<3> nyef: I tried to use it as a keyword parameter: (defun foo (&key :id :net) ..)
<1> so you can't define a lexical variable of that name
<4> mbishop: they have symbolic meaning.
<4> z0d: that is not the right syntax.
<4> (&key id net) would be it
<3> Ahh
<3> Yes, sorry.
<3> I just noticed.
<5> pjb: THANKS this is good!
<6> mothman: there's also the standard DRIBBLE function.
<5> pjb: What does that do?
<6> clhs DRIBBLE
<7> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dribbl.htm
<6> it saves the session to a file.
<6> the following interactions...
<3> (defun foo (&key id (net nil net-supplied-p) ...) Is that wrong? I get an "undefined function NET-SUPPLIED-P" error
<0> You know, I'm not sure that we should be encouraging people to work at a REPL like this...
<6> You could put in your ~/.clisprc or equivalent file (DRIBBLE (merge-pathnames "SESSION.LISP" (user-homedir-pathname) nil))
<6> Write the IDE _inside_ lisp!
<4> z0d: that doesn't seem likely. what's the rest of the function?
<5> Another problem, I loaded ibcl.lisp, but for some reason when I try to access the functions in it I get errors saying that they are undefined.
<5> I don't undersand it but these functions just arn't working.
<8> mothman: you need to USE- the PACKAGE in which they are defined
<5> Oh...oops...sorry, I am a bit new at LISP.
<5> What is the syntax of use?
<8> clhs use-package
<7> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_use_pk.htm
<3> Xach: (defun foo (&key id (net nil net-supplied-p)) (when (net-supplied-p) (warn "foo")))
<5> I'm just getting use-whatever has no value.
<8> z0d: net-supplied-p is a variable, not a function
<8> mothman: (use-package :name-of-package-defined-in-that-file)
<3> kpreid: Thanks.
<6> (use-package :ibcl-user)
<5> Is there a special way to call functions from packages because even after that I am getting the same error messages, I am appologize for my ignorance.
<6> You can also use ibcl-bootstrap.lisp to generate an executable image, so you just lauch ./icbl instead of clisp and have it activated.
<6> ibcl:some-fun or ibcl::some-internal-fun
<9> Yawgmoth7 pasted "My messed up code :P" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/22265
<9> Yawgmoth7 pasted "My messed up code :P" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/22266
<10> Could someone maybe look over that and tell me what I'm doing wrong (I know it's a lot)
<10> It's more psuedo code :P
<6> Yawgmoth7: what is (eq 0)?
<10> I didn't even finish comenting it
<10> I know, half the stuff there isn't meant to be..if you know what I mean
<0> Well, for starters, why double-paste it?
<8> Yawgmoth7: invoking "cd" is never what you want
<10> I just put it there so I would remember what I want.
<10> nyef, accident, I didn't even mean to paste it yet.
<6> You can use (ext:cd "dir")
<10> thanks!
<6> And you could use this form (and (= 0 (ext:shell ...)) (= 0 (ext:shell ...)) (= 0 (ext:shell ...)) ...)
<10> oh that makes more sense
<10> thanks
<5> pjb: You seem to know about IBCL so can you tell me why the (ibcl:save-sources "sources.lisp") doesn't save my source?
<2> em
<2> er
<6> What does it save?
<6> It can save only the new definitions.
<6> Not the old ones
<5> Some junk...what do you mean?
<5> Not the old ones?
<5> Only the ones after the package has been loaded?
<10> mbishop, hello
<6> As explained in the documentation (the comments), this package defines some macros such as defun, defmacro, etc, that keep a copy of the original forms to be able to reproduce it when you ask it with GET-SOURCE or SAVE-SOURCE.
<5> Oh, I see.
<2> Yawgmoth7: hello
<6> But in clisp, for all interactive defun, you should be able to retrieve the sources with function-lambda-expression.
<10> mbishop, how're you?
<2> Yawgmoth7: good, just customizing my .ratpoisonrc
<6> mothman: try this: (do-symbols (s *package*) (when (and (eql (symbol-package s) *package*) (fboundp s)) (print `(defun ,s ,@(cdr (function-lambda-expression s)))) ))
<10> mbishop, cool
<10> mbishop, I'm finally taking time to write some lisp code instead of just reading about it.
<2> nice
<10> yeah, it's fun.
<11> Hello.
<6> Hello!
<10> Olleh
<12> clhs import
<7> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_import.htm
<13> Allegro ****s, bah.
<14> why so?
<14> other than $$$
<13> ****s for writing portable code, I mean. :)
<4> it crashes to the ground more often and with as few reasons as cristiano ronaldo!
<4> just kidding.
<13> Xach: what's up with everyone booing him?!
<13> It's insane!
<4> i meant say that, like cristiano ronaldo, it is good at simulation
<13> Even a chinese guy mentioned some Ronaldo-hate in Shanghai.
<14> they undoubtedly try to snare you into dependency on their implementation. Should be manageable if recognized and countered from the jump.
<14> to the extent that CL is a standard.
<13> JKnecht: lots of non-standard behaviour.
<15> mlisp is evil but handy for writing java bridges :)
<16> who is this ronaldo fellow?
<16> basketball player?
<16> ;)
<17> who won the game?
<17> now you are in middle of this kind of discussion
<17> :-)
<11> What would you guys use to create a desktop environment (like KDE or Gnome, but more like Apple Lisa) ? (from languages to libs to IPC systems to programs (like xorg))
<4> I would use a Ubuntu CD
<11> Xach: not a possibility, the post never arrived at Barcelona and I already moved to Berlin. I have some Kubuntu CDs though.
<4> No fair, those secret constraints were not mentioend earlier.
<11> Xach: true, but I didn't say there weren't secret constraints, there's an infinite list of them, mentioning them would take forever, that's why I haven't done so.
<0> Pupeno: I'd start with a custom SBCL-based OS kernel, a custom X server, a from-scratch UI toolkit (not McCLIM), etc...
<11> nyef: I don't need to go to the kernel level, I prefeer not to go that deep. It should run in Linux today, Hurd in some years and always have FreeBSD as a fallback option. Hehe.
<0> Oh. In that case, I probably wouldn't bother.
<11> nyef: by custom X server you mean you'd be writting your own X server ?
<0> Pupeno: Yeah, I'd finish CLXS.
<11> nyef: why ? if you are going to use X, why not use xorg ?
<18> SBCL-based OS kernel,
<18> did you miss that part?
<0> Because porting a C compiler would be a pain in the ***?
<11> oic!
<18> o, say, do you see?
<11> Why use X at all if going to take such a extreme 'separate' approach ?
<0> Portability
<18> so you can make use of other osen?
<19> porting a C compiler to what is a pain?
<18> SBCL-based OS kernel,
<19> on what hardware?
<0> So I can make use of other OSes to run programs or to serve as a display, so I can make use of existing CLX-based programs, etc.
<0> est: x86 boxes for now.
<8> nyef: any particular reason for "not McCLIM"?
<8> (do you mean "not CLIM"?)
<0> kpreid: GPL/LGPL.
<8> ah
<18> nyef is crazy - but my kind of crazy
<0> So I don't necessarily mean "not CLIM", but I definately mean "not McCLIM".
<8> OK, then I can drop the question, because I was looking for an interesting reason Why Not CLIM...
<18> lol
<0> hefner: You want to do the UI layer for me, then?
<8> hefner: UI is fundamentally insane
<0> I could always put another layer in -under- CLXS.
<20> why not start with Movitz?
<0> junrue67: Aside from the compiler and the stack overflow detection?
<20> nyef: do you mean those are problems with Movitz or ... ?
<0> Movitz runs entirely in ring 0, which precludes being able to handle stack overflow conditions.
<20> ah, thanks
<0> And its compiler was designed around cross-compilation into a virtual image, not for normal file-based operation.
<11> last time I checked Movitz, when I asked what kind of persistance there was I got the following reply: "there's an IDE driver somewhere". Writting a desktop environment and having to start with finding an IDE driver is not my idea of fun or achievable task.
<20> gotcha
<11> nyef: that is, all Movitz is running at kernel-space ?
<21> hi.
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