| |
| |
| |
|
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Comments:
<0> I love programming
<0> but it's such a struggle for me
<1> no career is easy
<2> dankna-lap: some are easier.
<0> it's like I've gotten to this place in my programming abilities where going forward is harder than anything i've ever done
<1> if you're sure you're doing the right thing - and remember, if you are, you should be able to explain to yourself why it's right - then you really have no choice but to stick with it, heh
<1> pkhuong: agreed
<3> while I love programming, I hate doing uninteresting programming. But it makes some money for living.
<4> voidengineer: Look, at least you -can- program. I've actually confiscated someone's compiler because they were completely unsuited to it.
<0> yeah
<4> And if going forward is too hard, perhaps it's time for a period of consolidation and doing other stuff.
<0> I mean, I wrote cl-mpd in a month, after 3 months of studying lisp, but hearing people talk about compilers, and kernels, and gawd damn forth systems makes me go, "man I'd give my left testicle to be able to hack on something like that with confidence"
<1> compare it to breaking into the business of writing novels, for example
<4> The stuff I'm doing today would have been completely beyond me two years ago, for example.
<1> where people who succeed do so largely because they treated it as a full-time job for ten years before seeing a dime from it
<5> programming is hard, but hard work is rewarded. study and practice hungrily.
<0> yeah
<1> exactly - as tokenrove says
<0> oh they've started shooting off the big fireworks
<1> ah, cool
<0> brb
<5> particularly with regards dankna-lap's point, reading steven kind's "on writing" may actually be inspirational to you, as a lot of what he describes relates to many careers which involve skills and creativity.
<4> Heh. Have fun.
<5> see also norvig's "learn to program in ten years".
<4> tokenrove: Is "on writing" a book or a website?
<5> a book
<5> quite short; worth a read. he describes a lot of workflow/productivity issues that i think have a lot of relation to programming.
<1> I'm not familiar with it, thank you for the recommendation :)
<1> and yeah, I like writers, they're interesting people
<0> back
<4> Painters can be interesting people, too.
<5> erm, i realize that i typoed back there. s/kind/king/ in fact. (a much more recognizable writer -- but don't dismiss it just because he's popular. ;-))
<1> probably, but I don't know as many
<1> ah, haha, I wondered if that was a typo, but I figured you'd have pointed it out if it were :)
<0> yeah, i've been suffering ever since I got internet at home
<5> too much multitasking.
<0> before I wrote at least a bit every night, now it's awful
<4> Writing prose, or code?
<0> and I had cl-mpd, which I felt confident in writing
<1> sometimes I have to pull out the network cable to get anything done
<5> voidengineer: also, i've been working as a programmer for maybe eight years now, and for the six or so, there hasn't been a year when i haven't come very close to quitting and just becoming a janitor or something.
<0> I need a project that is for my level of experience
<1> or sit with a laptop that doesn't have wireless or any of the programs I usually waste time with
<0> tokenrove yeah
<0> dankna-lap yeah I need to do something
<1> but that's just a practical problem, to be solved
<0> actually I started reading Programming from the ground up today, so I'm hoping that this gets me motivated again
<1> cool.
<0> yeah, there really is no excuse for not knowing ***embly
<1> true
<0> at least for someone that desires to be a career programmer
<5> voidengineer: you may also find it useful to read joel spolsky's article "fire and motion".
<0> I will
<3> joel says do not use macros to create a new languages :]
<3> macroses
<5> well, joel has horrible microsoft scars on his brain, but that article is particularly good, i think.
<0> haha
<3> On Lisp is nice
<0> yeah, Paul Graham has a great writing style
<0> I read his Hackers and Painters book, which was such a nice 'light' read
<5> try "soul of a new machine" as a kind of semi-inspirational, "light" read.
<0> haha, I have that right here next to me
<1> Soul of a New Machine is great fun
<1> it has a few lessons to learn in it, but mostly it's just inspiration, yeah :)
<1> and also an interesting look into what computers were like in that time, which was long before I was around
<0> yeah, I really like books that talk indirectly about programming, or in this case hardware engineering
<0> I mean, books that aren't instructional
<4> This has little to do with hackers, but instead has something to do with painters: http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20030609_mural9.94a59.html
<5> along the same lines, i enjoyed ellen ullman's "the bug", but it was altogether more depressing than inspirational.
<4> voidengineer: Hackers, by Steven Levy?
<6> If find Heinlein's books inspirational.
<5> i find ayn rand's the fountainhead (moreso than her other books) to be inspirational for creative work.
<0> nyef no, I've not read it
<1> I always liked Atlas more - I relate to the characters better
<0> although the book "Patterns of Software" or what i've read of it thus far, is probably the best book on programming and the business of software, that i've encountered
<3> oh, yeah, now xi image generates much faster
<1> Patterns has some very important concepts, yeah
<0> it's a bit heavy at times too
<1> true
<0> but the intro writen by Christopher Alexander motivated me very highly
<4> Patterns isn't anywhere near as heavy as ClTl2. (I have both as hardcovers, ClTl2 is something like three times as heavy.)
<0> nyef hahahah
<7> cltl2 is good for smacking people with
<7> we have a number of copies lying around
<4> emu: The people who think it's authoritative?
<7> yes!
<7> though, it has some nice lucid explanations of basic concepts
<0> we need a cltl3
<0> one that is authoritative
<4> That would be CLTS.
<7> hyperspec + seibel
<7> 8)
<4> The spec is, by definition, the only authoritative source.
<0> I want a phat manual on my desk though
<0> so I look important and all
<7> you can't hyperlink a paper book
<0> true
<7> just print out the stack of paper
<7> and then use the web version
<0> no, in all honesty I really would like to have a book in print that is a good reference
<0> something I can read on the bus
<7> you read references on the bus?
<0> yeah, and my bible
<7> Objects 3:14
<4> Bible? K&R?
<0> lol
<0> I used to just listen to music
<0> but my hearing is seriously going bad
<4> I thought so. MOV(CRn) is ring0-only.
<4> So I need to tweak the stack layouts again...
<0> tokenrove haha, this joel article is great!
<8> Which book is the patterns of softawre one?
<8> have a link?
<0> yeah hold on
<9> What are my chances of picking a deadtree On Lisp?
<4> waddletron2k: There are two chances. "Fat", and "Slim".
<0> http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/PatternsOfSoftware.pdf
<8> voidengineer: thanks
<0> np
<0> cool
<0> it's a fun ride
<8> I've done some scheme in the past
<8> I Thought I'd try lisp to compare
<8> do I need any other book besides "on lisp"?
<0> haha, yeah
<4> Why would you need "on lisp"?
<0> you need:
<0> minion: PCL?
<0> 1... 2... 3...
<8> nyef: to learn lisp?
<7> fire and motion is right
<0> vincenz On Lisp is for advanced lisp topics
<9> I don't have a laptop, so when I travel or I'm away from this machine, that's the only way I'd be able to read it
<8> voidengineer: that's ok
<8> voidengineer: I pick up languages quite easily
<5> vincenz: on lisp isn't a good book for learning cl, initially. try Practical Common Lisp and Paradigms of AI Programming.
<8> tokenrove: ok
<10> PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<0> there
<0> vincenz that book is online
<8> yep :)
<8> thx
Return to
#lisp
or
Go to some related
logs:
gd php help ubuntu
#perl
#iptables
ubuntu libtoolize apt-get
xgl on centos
ubundu start vnc server
#javascript
#postfix
fc5 unload soundcard module
how to compile r8180
|
|