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Comments:
<0> Xof: Got a window, yes.
<0> The address book was the demo that worked best. Pane sizes not correct, output garbled, but exciting nonetheless.
<0> Not with SBCL though. That crashed much earlier.
<0> Allegedly my SBCL troubles were due to the fact that I wasn't using the latest CVS goodness.
<1> tj9582! I mean, Jasko!
<2> Oh noes! I am exposed!
<1> ok, chums
<1> marc battyani updated cl-user.net to have a color scheme i recommended
<1> do you like it better than the old one?
<1> http://cl-user.net/ is the site
<2> is there an old version to compare to?
<1> http://xach.com/tmp/b/
<1> in particular i found the slight difference between links and normal text to be hard to navigate
<2> I was about to comment on that
<2> looks improved to me
<1> eeeemarsden
<1> i think i have something that will work
<1> i understand now the problem with even one-arg file-position and i can work around it.
<3> lichtblau: would it make sense to get in touch with junrue and look at committing stuff?
<3> or do we need to find someone with the time to maintain the backend first?
<4> Moin
<5> Xach: I patched SBCL yesterday evening with a trampoline for FILE-POSITION, so my problem is less acute
<0> Xof: his reply seemed to indicate that his initial code drop wasn't expected to work, really, but that he's interested in getting it to a point where it's more stable
<0> see the final paragraphs in http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/mcclim-devel/2006-December/004830.html
<5> Xach: it would be good to have a solution for other implementations, but
<3> lichtblau: cool. (Some people here have muttered things about Windows support...)
<1> emarsden: just to confirm my understanding...if i avoid (or catch errors for) FILE-POSITION, skippy would work fine? i don't need to change any other i/o functions?
<6> Would it be considered herecy to use Eclipse for LISP? :P
<6> heresy*
<1> noteventime: no.
<7> LISP 1.0 or 1.5?
<1> noteventime: Jasko uses it.
<6> Ok, good :P
<1> noteventime: http://www.paragent.com/lisp/cusp/cusp.htm is his work.
<6> Ohh, that's what I've just installed :)
<8> Lisp is very heresy-accomodating. that's the idea, basically.
<6> :)
<3> tsk, that's so far behind the curve it doesn't even have who-calls support!
<3> lazy paragent people
<2> It's on the way, I swear
<2> I've just been very slow with this release
<1> such slander! they are a fine pair o' gents. HAHAHA!
<6> Do I need any specific common lisp implementation for cusp?
<2> noteventime, it comes with sbcl
<6> Ahh, great
<6> Thanks :)
<2> unless you're on a ppc mac, in which case things get more complicated
<6> I'm on x86_64 linux
<6> So it shouldn't be a problem
<2> that may or may not complicate matters
<2> I'm not sure how the x86 linux version runs on x86_64
<6> Should work
<6> Most x86 binaries work :)
<1> sbcl isn't exactly like most software.
<2> sbcl is pickier than most
<6> If it doesn't have some obscure dependencies
<1> Common Lisp is pretty obscure all by itself.
<6> Hmm, There is an x86_64 version of it
<6> Maybe I'll have to recompile
<6> Which shouldn't be any problem
<2> at any rate, if it doesn't work, you just need to replace the sbcl that came bundled with an appropriate one for your platform
<6> It's even avalible from portage
<6> Do I just point "Lisp executable" to the sbcl binary?
<2> ignore those preferences
<2> they do nothing
<2> there's an sbcl folder in the cusp folder that needs replacing
<2> (you'll also need to put the executable in there)
<9> ssh hb
<6> Jasko: Is ther some kind of documentation on what I have to do?
<2> sadly, no
<3> see? Lazy paragent people
<6> Jasko: It works though, I think
<2> score!
<2> see? nobody needs documentation!
<6> I don't know any common lisp at all- But I tried this (print "Hello World")
<6> Then alt-K
<6> And I got Hello World in the REPL window
<2> sounds about right
<2> minion: tell noteventime about PCL
<10> noteventime: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<2> noteventime, your next step should probably be to read that to learn Common Lisp
<6> Thanks :)
<6> Haha, might be a good first step :P
<6> I'm already getting used to the syntax
<2> noteventime, incidentally, for just experimenting with various expressions, you're better off putting them straight into the REPL than compiling a file repeatedly
<6> python style :P
<2> Yes. We stole that from them.
<6> I can define functions directly in it too?
<1> noteventime: yes.
<6> great
<6> How fast is code compiled in SBCL?
<6> Not that it really matters
<1> noteventime: do you mean how fast is the code it produces? or how long does it take to produce compiled code?
<6> The speed of the compiled binary(?)
<1> noteventime: i use sbcl to write compressed graphic files, and it's pretty fast when using the appropriate data structures and declarations.
<1> it generates native machine code.
<1> i have a GIF loader that is faster than ImageMagick*
<6> So it's in the C++ area?
<1> *for contrived, dozens-of-frames animated gifs, but still
<1> noteventime: depends on the task.
<5> Xach: that's correct for Skippy with flexi-streams; wrapping each call to FILE-POSITION with IGNORE-ERRORS makes things work
<6> I mean compared to Python
<6> C++ and python are the two languages I "know"
<11> Xof pasted "toy dynamic clim menu code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/34234
<1> noteventime: well, a lot of useful python functionality comes from C code that is accessible from python.
<1> noteventime: pure python is pretty slow. pure lisp can be pretty fast.
<6> Thanks
<6> That's what I wanted to know :)
<3> although a menu-bar's menus are fixed at frame instantiatiation time, the contents of those menus can be altered dynamically. Is this distinction intended?
<12> one key difference is that python doesn't have a type system.
<1> noteventime: lisp can be pretty slow, too, but the usual plan is to write what makes sense, and if it's too slow, profile and adjust.
<6> Like with most languages :)
<13> Learning lisp is generally career suicide, though.
<1> in some languages, the last steps are "profile and rewrite in C"
<14> ZabaQ: why ?
<12> because it makes you crazy
<13> It's so much fun, it makes everything else seem pointless...
<1> in Lisp, the last step is often "profile and rewrite in Lisp with declarations and an intimate familiarity with your compiler"
<14> Zhivago: oh ... that's not a problem, I'm sysadmin
<6> ZabaQ: Depends on where you want to work :P It's probably more appreciated in Academia
<3> I'm not so sure about that
<13> I think it depends where you are in academica, too..
<12> speaking of python -- I think that they use their reference counting as a kind of poor man's dynamic extent
<6> I don't really care though, I'm learning lisp for fun :)
<6> After 4 years with C/C++ anything seems fun :P
<6> I've just realised
<2> Lisp will make you a better programmer even when you're using other languages
<6> I've got to try AspectL :D
<6> Are there still any lisp machines around, new ones that is?
<1> You can turn an x86 into a Lisp machine with movitz. Not quite as functional as the old ones.
<6> cool
<6> common lisp looks like everything I've been looking for O_O
<15> hmm
<15> java's never fun =)
<16> lisp might have made me a worse java programmer
<1> hint: that's not lisp's fault.
<16> i spend half my time using reflection to implement slow, buggy approaches to function pointers
<15> lol @ xach
<1> obelus: please don't do that.
<15> ?
<15> laugh at something that's funny?
<1> not that way.
<1> we've got a channel reputation to uphold. frivolity will not be tolerated!
<15> ah
<3> the number of "lol"s permitted is proportional to the lines of code of free lisp software, released and documented
<3> you get one lol per 10,000 lines per year
<17> lol
<6> haha
<15> in that case we've used them all
<17> obelus: nope, that's my first one for a very long time
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