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Comments:
<0> shogunx: you have no idea what is involved in supporting a 30yo system but you're arguing that it's superior
<1> people throwing away the old computer entirely just because the new one has 1 GHz more cpu power
<2> hiya solido
<0> so unless you have actual *facts* to support your "argument", drop it
<3> dv_: software needs to be updated
<4> Sneaky_Bastard: heya
<5> brlancer: rofl nice argumen
<5> t
<3> programmers use newer hardware
<0> poningru: perhaps we have different ideas of throwaway
<3> thus, the programs require such
<5> demean your opponent
<1> Luke-Jr, especially with simple speed upgrades this is not the case
<6> any1 can help Apache-2.2.2+php-5.1.4 install prob
<0> poningru: I recycle many things which are disposable
<1> old chip out, new chip in, done.
<3> dv_: no, worst is RAM
<4> dv_: try running a TCP/IP stack on an 8088... remember, they were 8 bit machines running at 4.77 MHz
<3> solid_liq: those are sold today
<1> well, this is extreme solid_liq
<3> (8088 with TCP/IP)
<5> brlancer: thats not whats meant by throwaway society
<5> brb
<0> poningru: I'm not demeaning anyone--otoh, he's yet to support anything other than saying, "I'm right I'm right!"
<0> poningru: than what is?
<4> Luke-Jr: yeah I know, but they're different than the originals. The design has been changed to suit embedded systems.
<7> solid_liq, wasn't the 8088 16bit?
<1> but I mean, throwing away a 2ghz machine just for a 3ghz one? for no other reason? *thats* unnecessary
<0> s/than/then
<7> or was that the 8086
<1> and it happens.
<4> oohal: no, that was the 8086
<8> Is there a RAD IDE with cross-platform support and either a HTTP GET control/widget/cl*** or a general TCP/IP control/widget/cl***?
<7> k
<9> brlancer, i did not say that the system is superior PER SE. i said that the concepts behind its design as a long-lasting system are superior to the power supply that everyone knows is going to fail sooner than later.. do not get confused between the concept and the object.
<4> dv_: well yeah, that's why I use them for servers :D
<3> tonsofpcs: Visual Basic
<3> oh, wait... cross-platform =p
<1> its worse with laptops, though, since these things tend to break down rapidly (and conveniently after the warranty expires :) )
<8> Luke-Jr - how so?
<8> lol
<0> shogunx: and I'm saying you haven't any idea what is required in supporting a computing system that is 30+ yrs old
<3> tonsofpcs: well, it does work in WINE...
<0> shogunx: building for long lasting has advantages
<9> brlancer, when did it become personal? ego boy.
<4> tonsofpcs: Eclipse
<0> shogunx: building for disposability has advantages
<8> Luke-Jr - yea, that's nice, I want my output apps to run everywhere
<8> oh, and not java pls ;)
<3> tonsofpcs: they'll probably work in WINE too
<3> tonsofpcs: Qt?
<1> brlancer, this reminds me of the nsa calls for 5,25" floppy drives because their old archives used those disks :)
<0> shogunx: but there's little point in building something to last beyond obsolecense
<8> Luke-Jr - RAD
<4> tonsofpcs: KDevelop 4 and Qt then :D
<3> tonsofpcs: Qt?
<4> tonsofpcs: you'll just have to wait till the end of the year/beginning of next :P
<3> tonsofpcs: GAMBAS?
<8> RAD
<0> shogunx: this isn't personal--you're just talking about something you have absolutely no concrete experience in
<8> hmm, what's gambas?
<0> I'm calling you on it :)
<3> Visual Basic clone
<3> works on 32-bit OS, I think cross-platform
<0> dv_: I miss your point
<9> brlancer, and you are saying that you have such experience, apparently?
<3> maybe just KDE tho, not sure
<4> tonsofpcs: Qt Designer gives you RAD
<1> brlancer, well this is one example of an issue with old systems
<3> last I checked, it won't work 64-bit tho
<1> the nsa didn't have those drives anymore
<8> solid_liq - no, Qt designer gives me a gui design app seperate from a code design app
<0> shogunx: I support systems 10+ yrs old--it's a pita; they keep running, they're excellent hardware--but they're not worth the cost of support and they should be migrated to something more...disposable
<3> tonsofpcs: you *can* write code in it
<4> tonsofpcs: yeah, but used together... ;)
<3> tonsofpcs: KDevelop does that better tho
<8> solid_liq - that makes it not so rapid
<0> dv_: yes, I agree--hanging onto systems beyond obsolencense can be very problematic
<2> brlancer: there are environments were 30+ year lifetime is required in the spec
<9> no. i have never run a vax, nor have i hired anyone to run a vax such that i would know how much such a person could be purchased for. I do, however, put to use 10 year old thin clients and 10 year old smp boxes to provide public network access.
<8> Luke-Jr - GAMBAS appears to not work properly with windows
<4> tonsofpcs: well write the code in Qt Designer too then
<2> communication satellites.....
<8> [it even has issues with cygwin]
<2> ... aircraft
<0> Sneaky_Bastard: then it's a bad spec
<3> brlancer: ...
<0> 50yrs ago 30yrs was a good spec
<4> locomotives for trains
<2> let's see....the deep space exploration vehicles
<0> today, 10yrs is a *long* time in terms of computing services
<4> traffic lights?
<9> brlancer, so you may keep your consumer crap if you choose, and i will keep my "antiquated" systems that are funtioning well and will continue to do so.
<3> brlancer: you intend to upgrade hardware on a 50 year distance space shuttle? ;)
<2> brlancer: you must not work in any industrial, military or aerospace apps
<10> public network access ? is that like internet for rainbow people ?
<0> Luke-Jr: you misunderstand me :)
<4> Voyager 1
<4> :D
<0> Luke-Jr: if it's needed on a deep shuttle, then it isn't quite obsolete
<4> headmonkey: sounds like AOL bs
<2> there are systems where it takes at least 5 years of burn-in to be accepted
<0> Luke-Jr: if it's needed on the ground, it's going to become obsolete before that ship ever returns
<10> because although those 10 year old terminals are useful to someone providing free services....they arent very useful for an important business endeavor
<2> as reliability has to be established before it goes into real world equipement
<9> headmonkey, something like that, though the solar networks i'm working on now are more so.
<1> brlancer, it would be interesting to see how well a current system would age, provided it would be constructed for long duration
<11> #sed
<0> dv_: depends what your goal is
<10> shogunx, im not bashing what your doing with them either....i think its great your using them....but dont spec out 10 year old hardware for a military contract....it'll end in disaster
<1> brlancer, well what are the pitas?
<2> yeah, that's why the crawler-transporter used for space shuttles is the same one used for the Saturn series
<9> headmonkey, they could easily be used as great pos terminals too, or in many other applications.
<1> UI? obsolete formats & storage hardware?
<4> why don't the spaceships in Star Trek have chip fabs? they replace them with FPGAs? :D
<2> it works
<10> Sneaky_Bastard, a unique exception to a general rule
<10> shogunx, i know....i liked the old wyse 50/60 terminals
<1> solid_liq, maybe they have quantum computers :)
<0> Sneaky_Bastard: 5yr burn in, while it sounds nice on paper, is a really bad idea in every instance I've seen it
<2> there are places in the world where steam locomotives over 100 years old are still in mainline service
<0> technology moves too fast
<10> shogunx, way back when xenix was better than dos ;)
<9> headmonkey, :)
<4> how about the guidance systems for nuclear missiles? 90 year design life? :D
<0> and you can QE something faster than 5yrs
<2> brlancer: you clearly have not seen any instances were it was necessary
<0> Sneaky_Bastard: well, i think that was a given
<0> "is a really bad idea in every instance I've seen"
<3> solid_liq: I'd rather just make them not degrade when powered off =p
<2> meaning that your industry exposure is quite limited
<1> brlancer, well it should be fine if the system is isolated, shouldnt it?
<10> solid_liq, they have smart artilery rounds now....did you see those ? the electronics can withstand a 16000 G's of force
<1> for example, some kind of archive
<0> Sneaky_Bastard: no, perhaps my industry exp is *different*
<4> all I really want to know is, why can't I get a laptop with decent speed that's 100% silent!?!?!?
<9> solid_liq, particularly if you ditch the warhead payload and launch sats and such with them.
<4> headmonkey: yeah, they're cool as hell. Have you seen metal storm?
<10> solid_liq, yeah...the electronically fired bullets
<2> metal storm is quite interesting system
<3> solid_liq: speed usually comes with storage; solid state storage isn't large without being insanely expensive
<1> the 1-million-shots-per-round guns?
<1> per minute that is
<0> dv_: not wholely--that system will require repairs, it requires administrators, it requires some interface to users and other systems (if not networked, than hard/floppy disk)
<2> I hope it succeeds in replacing mine fields
<9> solid_liq, that lap would need solid state storage and a metal case that cated as the heat sink.
<4> dv_: yep
<1> ok the spare parts need to be manufactured
<2> dv: million round-per-minute rate of fire
<0> dv_: the simpler the system then the less repair/admin/interface
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