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Comments:
<0> SpeedEvil: i have 4 500GB drives that need constant active cooling and really heat up the room.
<1> pennywise and pound foolish is what you are...hmmmm
<0> SpeedEvil: they have not failed yet. :-)
<1> as yoda would say ;)
<2> linagee: well - yes - I thought you meant AC
<3> I didn't knwo they made 500gb drives
<2> linagee: keeping drives cool = doubleplusgood
<0> SpeedEvil: actually yes, in my case, that is what i use. :)
<4> They make 1TB drives now don't they?
<5> stevekl: biggest drive i've seen lately are 750gb.
<0> arrummzen: 750GB.
<5> 1tb should be soon.
<0> lowkey: that would be insane! hahaha
<2> To quote the simpsons "Does anyone need that much porn?"
<5> badly.
<0> imagine if i had 8 1TB drives. i'd be so broke but have so much freaking space. lol
<5> imagine trying to back it up.
<0> and i'd need even more cooling. lol
<4> SpeedEvil: its best just to keep the porn on DVD...
<0> lowkey: backing it up? lol
<0> lowkey: disk to disk. :-)
<1> linagee, now fill that space with original, publishable content to get your money back
<5> linagee: then it would be like having 4 drives instead of 8.
<0> headmonkey: you mean porn? lol
<1> as long as its publishable
<0> lowkey: no, i mean build another system entirely. :-P
<2> linagee: don't forget PC power supply failures, or fires.
<0> SpeedEvil: build another system entirely. keep your data recovery offline unless it's actively backing up.
<5> or bad electricity.
<5> linagee: what would you backup 8TB to?
<0> SpeedEvil: spin things up and synchronize once each day automagically.
<4> lowkey: magnetic tape?
<0> lowkey: like i said, disk to disk
<6> hi :) when I try to stop a raid device using mdadm -S /dev/md0 I get: "mdadm: fail to stop array /dev/md0: Device or resource busy" ; how can I check what is keeping the device busy?
<5> arrummzen: you hate yourself dont you?
<0> lowkey: you can use LTO3 tape, but disk to disk is actually cheaper.
<2> linagee: If only spinning disks were not more relibale
<5> linagee: so then the backup disks are running when the building burns?
<7> shai: usual culprits are swap or mounted filesystems
<0> SpeedEvil: oh, of course they're in raid! hahaha
<2> shai: fuser -m may
<5> linagee: or remove the disks?
<4> I have 1 80Gb hard disk I have been using for over a decade.
<4> what do you mean spinning disks aren't reliable.
<2> shai: X can be a candidate too
<5> linagee: once a week backups or daily incrementals?
<1> get a 16 tb battery backed ram disk and a room sized dvd-ram robotic library
<0> SpeedEvil: you don't back up for storage reliability. you back up because what if you have two drives go bad, or what if a virus eats all your data.
<2> arrummzen: I nean spinning disks are more reliable.
<6> SpeedEvil, no X on this box ...
<5> linagee: ***ume a full backup once a week....thats 32 1TB drives just for the backups drives.
<7> arrummzen: they had 80gb drives in 1996? i thought the biggest ones back then were only 20gb..
<0> SpeedEvil: you could just cross your fingers that a virus does not eat your data and that no double failures happen. actually, a few business do this believe it or not.
<4> Triffid_Hunter: I probably exagerated a bit. I don't know how long I have had it for sure.
<5> lots of businesses do that.
<5> until they get ****ed once.
<4> Triffid_Hunter: but its been a very long tiem.
<1> businesses do stupid things everyday
<0> lowkey: depends how important the data is.
<8> Not sure if theres a better place to ask this, but I think I may have just deleted the default vlan on my switch... how would one go about reseting a switch?
<3> linagee: how much does one 500gb drive cost?
<9> Does anyone use jahshaka?
<5> once a week backups isn't very important.
<0> lowkey: if you're talking about data that can never be reproduced like bank account balances, you'd be silly to think they don't have like five copies of that data.
<0> stevekl: 500GB drive is only like $250 nowadays
<7> fooker: see if it has a reset button.. they're usually recessed and on the back or bottom so you can only access them with a ball pen or a matchstick
<5> linagee: they use raids for that generally.
<0> stevekl: $0.50/gig is pretty nice
<1> linagee, in geographically seperated locations
<5> linagee: cause any offline backup ages too fast.
<8> Triffid_Hunter: No reset switch as far as I can find... my first thought as well :(
<6> SpeedEvil, so: fuser -m /dev/md0 ?
<0> lowkey: exactly. that's what i meant. but they might have it replicated disk to disk a few times.
<2> shai: yes
<4> it would pwn if your bank lost its data right after you did a major withdraw of cash...
<2> shai: In theory, it can tell you whatevers got the disk open
<7> fooker: ask google, and if that fails see if it has a jumper or battery or something on the inside
<1> if its bank account balances, its replicated in multiple geographic locations...because if the building catches fire, no amount of raid is gonna help
<5> given current market tech. backing up 8tb efficiently outside a raid would be near impossible.
<7> fooker: i ***ume you've tried putting yourself on a vlan it does know about, if any?
<5> its just too much data.
<0> lowkey: and don't think they are tapeless. imagine you are a business that can spend anything. would you get rid of tape just because it takes longer to restore? no way! you just implent the faster way of restoring, and keep tape as a backup to the backup.
<2> shai: NFS can also do it without being listed
<4> headmonkey: why not just keep it in the fireproof vault?
<7> arrummzen: still too much downtime if it's buried in rubble
<0> lowkey: again, depends on what business you're talking about. how much is their data worth? lol
<1> arrummzen, i dunno...thats not what banks do
<5> linagee: i've worked with large robots with multiple tape drives. its still not that efficient.
<8> Triffid_Hunter: I added vlan1 and vlan2, and then vlan3 with the unused ports in it, but I disabled 802.x (forget, my memory is bad) on the first vlan, thinking that would disable it.
<2> Triffid_Hunter: Wifi, battery backups in the fireproof cault :)
<8> Triffid_Hunter: Allows traffic through no problems (thats how I'm on here), but it refuses to let me telnet in
<4> can you get wifi in the vault?
<1> most bank branches are linked via satellite to each other
<7> lol SpeedEvil i think wireless access is the last thing a bank would attach to their backups
<0> lowkey: sure it is. LTO3 can go like 40 megs/sec. imagine 4 drives doing that. you need fiberchannel to move that much data.
<1> if not satellite, then leased lines
<2> arrummzen: Sure - you drill a _small_ hole through the vault, and put a fireproof antenna on it.
<4> SpeedEvil: sounds like a great thing to put dynamite into ...
<5> linagee: and even if a few companies can do it, so what? data volumes are already much larger than the average company/person can handle.
<0> lowkey: yes you can back up 8TB of data. get like 9 or so LTO3 tapes. that would hold that.
<1> banks also have to adhere to government regulations concerning the account data
<5> 10.
<0> lowkey: true. all i'm saying is that why get rid of a backup strategy just because you have purchased a faster way to restore? that would be stupid.
<5> ***uming no overhead.
<5> so mostly likely 11 tapes.
<6> SpeedEvil, well.. I found out that a login on another console was in the dir /mnt/md0/Temp and that kept it busy ... also, for some reason, mysql was keeping it busy (even though there is nothing there) buy stopping mysql first removed it from being busy and I was not able tu umount and stop the device :) thanks!
<1> they cant just put it on a floppy and take it home with them
<4> headmonkey: government admins do that all the time.
<0> lowkey: don't forget. LTO3 is 400/800GB compressed
<1> arrummzen, the gov can do whatever it wants...the banks cant ;)
<4> headmonkey: when the disks get stolen out of their cars you get a cool leter of applogy from the relivent agency.
<5> linagee: FYI each of the LT03 tapes takes 25 HOURS to fill.
<0> arrummzen: of course. just have it highly encrypted so it's jibberish
<0> lowkey: fsck
<5> linagee: so 11 tapes would be 275 hours.
<0> lowkey: do you work for overland or somebody?
<5> given a week is only 168 hours
<5> that makes it very hard to do one full backup a week.
<8> lowkey: 10 drives working concurently?
<0> 25 hours? sure?
<4> who is overland?
<5> 324GB/hr.
<0> arrummzen: a tape robot company
<5> each tape is 800gb.
<8> lowkey: Or put only 1/10 of the data on each tape and have 100 tapes.
<4> ah.
<0> lowkey: megs/sec?
<5> full set is 8192 GB
<4> I think mercury tubes are the best method of storage.
<5> 324GB*1024 == mb / 60sec*60min
<4> until someone bumps them...
<0> lowkey: 92 megs/sec seems a bit high
<0> lowkey: i think it's like 40-60 megs/sec
<0> lowkey: *shrug*, maybe hardware compression makes it faster
<5> 324gb/hour ***umes 2:1 compresson according to the page.
<0> aha. heh
<5> so those are BEST case numbers.
<5> if everything is perfect.
<0> lowkey: ok. so to really use the bandwidth, you need a fiberchannel per tape drive. lol
<5> reality will be worse.
<0> lowkey: or channel them
<5> still with 10 drives 8TB would take 25 hours.
<5> no wait...
<5> i think i made a math mistake.
<0> with 10 drives, you could push 920 megs/sec. :->
<5> oops.
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