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Comments:
<0> that's why we're trying to work closer to KDE upstream now
<0> so we can hopefully work together and forward our improvements
<0> or think together of how to make the usability better
<1> raphink: Write to the Kde-usability-devel mailing list about the problem :)
<0> good idea :)
<2> raphink: Ctrl+. or Ctrl+,
<2> and Ctrl+[
<2> or ]
<0> yes this is for kopete
<2> those are the standard shortcuts
<2> they work in konq for me too
<0> just sent an email to the usability ML
<2> they don't work in konsle, but konsole is different for shortcuts anyway
<0> how wonder how you can use that
<0> s/how/I/
<3> raphink meant: I wonder how you can use that
<2> I suppose I might have overloaded it myself, but I don't think I did
<0> :)
<0> hehe
<0> ctrl+[ is horrible
<0> only US keyboards can use that
<4> Not on US keyboard. :)
<5> raphink: why?
<0> what do you have icwiener?
<5> I can use ctr+[
<2> UK keyboards too :-)
<5> i'm polish
<0> dpc5: oh I can, too
<0> it's just not useful
<4> raphink: US layout
<0> I think it's much more intuitive to use the left and right arrows to navigate in tabs
<0> since you're going left or right
<2> Sho_: do Ctrl+. and Ctrl+[ work in konvi?
<2> raphink: Ctrl+(Left|Right) already used for "one word to the (left|right)"
<0> PhilRod: in konqui?
<2> no, but in kopete
<0> oh right PhilRod
<1> PhilRod: Ctrl+, & Ctrl+. are the defaults
<0> but alt+left | right
<0> is used for some history thing
<0> that nobody uses by default
<5> as for me shortcut problem is minor; simple ctr+s and ctr+shift+s does the same everywhere; other shortcuts are not used by new users and can be changed be poweruser
<0> PhilRod: there is no problem. I believe there is rather a decision to take for KDE ;)
<1> PhilRod: Ctrl+whatever shortcuts are generall problematic for Konsole
<0> guideline for usability
<1> +y
<0> you can't make everybody happy ;)
<2> Sho_: yup
<0> Sho_: agreed
<0> dpc5: I do not agree
<0> this is making a virtual distinction between power users and noobs
<0> without anything in between
<0> not everybody is either a KDE power user or a noob
<0> there are average people in the middle
<0> who would like to get a logical, working DE
<0> withotu having to be sysadmins
<5> middle user can go into two ways - change shortuctu or don't use it at all :)
<6> hi ppl
<5> that does not need sysadmin
<0> try to talk abut usability with devs ...
<0> reminds me talks on adept ...
<2> raphink: you seem to have changed your point - are you saying that the shortcuts should be the same among apps (which seems to be the case already), or that the default should be different to what it is now?
<6> I need help for a kde app, KFTPGrabber...
<0> PhilRod: it's not the case
<0> defaults are very different among apps
<1> raphink: mornfall is now in talks with openusability
<0> Sho_: I know that :)
<0> there have been talks on that in Paris this week
<2> raphink: what apps? apart from konsole, everything uses Ctrl+.
<0> although I couldn't make it there :(
<2> or did I miss something?
<5> devs are fine - KDE have already well working shortcuts
<0> PhilRod: then we'll have to translate shortcuts
<0> because at least french can't use ctrl+. for that
<6> it don't want to connect to my FTP when my firewall run, but gftp yes... I want to know what ports I do to open in my firewall for KftpGrabber please...
<2> raphink: how come?
<0> on an azerty keyboard, . is shift+,
<2> ah, I see
<0> so there's no logic at all
<4> TigreDeSiberie: Tried p***ive mode?
<6> hum how ?
<5> french people are buing worse kind of keyboards? why? :D
<0> we have to type ctrl+****+, to get ctrl+.
<0> dpc5: because we need them ?
<4> TigreDeSiberie: Don't know KftpGrabber. But it sounds to be the problem.
<0> dpc5: french has got lots of accents that are not on other keyboards :
<0> etc.
<2> raphink: ok so this is a different issue (but a relevant one)
<0>
<7> everyone needs to type ctrl+****+, to get ctrl+.
<6> I have the same problem as http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-bugs-dist&m=112020658203193&w=2
<5> raphink: think about chinees people
<7> coz + key is = without shift
<2> Caster: not on UK/US keyboards
<0> PhilRod: my point is that arrows are always placed logicaly, spacialy speaking, on any keyboard
<7> hu?
<0> so you're sure that using them for shortcuts to go left or right make it logical
<0> whatever the localization
<2> raphink: which is a somewhat different point, but I finally see what you mean
<2> have to go shower then eat. Back later
<5> some haitians may have no control, some zambians no alt, some other ... etc.
<0> I mean that shortcuts are not localized in KDE
<0> so they ought to be logical for the majority of people
<0> imo
<0> dpc5: I'm serious ;)
<5> and the majority is US/EN
<0> dpc5: the majority of the world uses windows
<0> still you're wanting to improve KDE
<1> dpc5: I highly doubt that the majority of Linux users is US/EN
<0> the majority is not always what matters
<1> (and certainly not KDE)
<0> Sho_: esp the majority of KDE users
<0> ;)
<0> they're more likely to be german and french imo
<5> but US is a standard - sorry
<5> wordl supremacy and such :)
<0> go on windows
<4> historical issue from ASCII :)
<0> if you mind about supremacy
<0> ok anyway
<0> I wrote to the usability list :)
<4> It is hard to get logical shortcuts for every kbdlayout.
<0> i'll brb
<0> :)
<0> icwiener: indeed, but it's worth trying imo
<5> icwiener: that's right
<4> Yes, think so.
<0> if kde was all about americans
<0> it wouldn't be translated as well as it is
<0> it is hard to keep KDE translated in hundreds of languages
<0> yet it's done
<4> Yes, german translation is awsome. :D
<0> and they have to be redone all the time
<0> ;)
<4> indeed
<0> so it's even harder than choosing logical international shortcuts
<0> ;)
<0> anyway
<0> laters
<0> :)
<4> cu
<8> someone here running KDE in a mobile device? (not a notebook :)
<6> I don't find what is the port
<6> hum
<9> TigreDeSiberie: usually the ftp services is on port 21
<6> I'm sure it is a tcp port
<6> 21 is open Pinaraf
<6> oups
<4> TigreDeSiberie: 21 is the FTP port. The dataport will be negotiated between client and server.
<6> pinotree
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