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Comments:
<0> frb, huh?
<0> you haven't tried it?
<1> I tried it, I found it quite annoying
<0> I see
<0> in what way?
<1> the real Dom Inspector does a much better job on CSS mapping
<1> and Console2 is much clearer for the JS Console
<2> I couldn't find out how to access most of the CSS style properties in Firebug
<0> console2 still picks up exceptions from other pages
<0> and it's in a different window
<0> unless you have two monitors, it's not very convenient switching between them
<1> I just resize my windows
<1> not every window has to be maximized you know
<0> I prefer hitting F12 and having the browser fullscreen
<0> it doesn't, but it's more convenient
<0> moreover, domi is in another window too
<1> if you hit inspect, it opens it in the DI window
<1> in Firebug, I have to keep switching between the tree tab and the styles tab, which annoyed me to no end
<0> and it's a bother to a) open it b) hit inspect so that it'd show the page in it, and then have to click buttons every time you want to find something
<1> and I saw no rhyme or reason to the sorting firebug did, as well as no chain of styles, only the active one
<0> in firebug you hit inspect and mouseover elements, and it shows them instantly
<0> so don't use it for editing styles, it's just one feature
<0> it also has breakpoint debugging
<1> so does venkman
<0> venkman is a piece of ****
<0> and in a yet another window
<3> !v url
<1> I'm still not impressed with firebug, its annoyances are more than it's worth
<1> alt-tab is my friend
<2> Fivestar: actually replace that with a URL
<0> what annoyances?
<0> except for css editing
<1> not css editing, css examination
<0> well, whatever
<0> I use web developer's extension for that
<1> no you don't
<0> didn't even notice there's a styles tab in firebug
<0> yes I do
<0> I hit ctrl+shift+y and click on an element
<1> the WebDev extension doesn't list all active stylesheets and tell you on each element which stylesheets apply and in what order
<0> and see the computed styles
<1> I don't want computed styles, I want real styles
<2> geez guys, just use whatever you want - you both seem to be doing ok with what you use
<1> and since I use multiple CSS files and take advantage of the cascade, I sometimes get into specificity problems
<1> so far, only the DI is efficient at solving them
<0> it's called DOMi
<0> so you actually use venkman too?
<1> usually don't need it
<2> using venkmann can be avoided by writing decent code
<1> haven't had to actually debug any js in ages, what I write works
<1> if it breaks, it's in IE, and nothing you have will help there
<0> I guess you don't write much js then :3
<0> I can see that you can do without debugging with simple scripts
<4> I only use webdev, venkmand and the DI .. and JS is about all I do ..
<1> all I use is innerHTML
<4> And even then, venkman is a last resort normally when I'm debugging other people's code
<4> frb .. heh .. I haven't gotten any further on that yet .. but I might get back to it soon
<0> anyways, it's nice to hear that you're all great coders and don't usually make mistakes
<0> but for some reason I'm not sure developers like that are a majority
<0> in fact, I think most people writing js are closer to noobs
<1> there are a lot of bad web developers in the world
<0> I'd prefer you say new
<1> most of those write for IE
<0> not really
<1> new != bad
<1> I meant what I said
<0> show me a newbie developer that's not bad:)
<1> if they are willing to learn, they aren't bad
<0> their code still ****s, though
<0> and they don't have knowledge of browser quirks
<1> but a debugger won't help them
<0> it would save them a lot of time, actually
<2> Poniverss: not if they don't know how to use it
<0> as beginners make a lot of mistakes and then spend time looking for them
<2> which they won't, being beginners
<1> alert debugging is where it's at when you're starting out
<1> just like beginning C coders use printf, not gdb
<4> Not really .. a debugger is only useful if you know how they work. If you understand stepover vs into
<0> my point is, it would help them a lot if they'd learn to use it
<5> *perks interest* javascript debugger? where?
<0> wyrd33: in my basement, come over and see
<1> wyrd33, builtin, called alert and toString :)
<5> lol
<5> ****age.
<0> I also have shuvels
<6> we're all still learning, labeling people as noobs isnt helpful
<5> someone would be rich if they built us one
<1> I've been a newb for 12 years
<6> some are just noobler than others :)
<0> p0windah: there's a difference between newbies and noobs
<0> noobs are the obnoxious google-disabled people
<1> you guessed it, pr0n
<1> s/google/searchengine/
<0> no, google
<4> . . .
<6> I'd like to redefine noob as someone who doesnt listen/advance their knowledge
<5> my knowledge never advances
<4> that's already got a word "da-moron"
<5> i ****
<0> I has a shuvel
<5> my brain is full and it refuses to expand
<0> full of...
<6> da-maron
<5> full of nothin
<0> I meant to say ****
<5> hell i only discovered prototype, moo, etc. like 2 days ago when i stumbled upon an article on sitepoint
<6> Woosta: any room for "**** face" ?
<0> anyways, frb is a bad person
<0> I think he also dislikes prototype
<6> s/he is ?
<0> do you, frb? are you not in favour of prototype?
<5> prototype is a cool concept, but it is bloated with useless stuff, like making ruby syntax for no reason
<0> you like writing your own libs?
<4> Poniverss: that makes me bad too I guess .. weird ..
<2> and, at this point of pettiness, I'm off
<1> am I bad for using /ignore?
<6> I like keyboards,..
<0> wyrd33: some like it
<7> hm
<4> frb .. I use if for several semi-regulars .. you're not bad .. but you will get confused by people having one-sided conversations :)
<0> it's not so clear cut that making it resemble ruby means it's boated
<0> bloated, sorry b0at
<0> too bad it doesn't end there
<0> frb is also one of those that enjoy ranting about how ajax is a bad term, but doesn't give you an alternative
<0> he thinks it should be referred to with its definition
<6> Poniverss: ah well, /ignore him then :)
<8> i like stealing code from prototype
<8> it's "stolen"
<0> p0windah: I can't mock him like that
<0> I'm taking this upon myself in the sake of the entire world
<6> Poniverss: while you're at it, might as-well go clear out #web too
<0> yeah, windrose ****s balls
<8> i heard kevin rose has a big cock though
<0> you're into penises, Cars_Kill ?
<8> not really
<0> want to see a picture of ****ting ****nipples?
<1> if I'm a bad person, that means all parts of my body are bad, and I'm rude that means I'm an ***
<1> that means... I'm a Bad ***!
<1> and on that note, I'm going to bed
<9> yo b0at you here ?
<10> b0at, is not here, please leave a message after the tone.
<9> i was gonna try but im not funny enough lol
<11> hi all
<10> chino: Did you need help with something or do you just need to soak up the awesomeness?
<9> were working on something
<9> i came up with it last night
<9> he loves it
<10> Ah.
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