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Comments:
<0> is there any way to find when the transitions between standard time and daylight savings time take place? I cannot find any public function to extract this information from zoneinfo :-?
<1> watch the news on tv?
<0> PlasmaHH than information *is* already in zoneinfo (which is part of glibc) in ever unix/linux system, only it is binary-compiled and seems there is no public function to extract the information
<1> ah ok. well, last resort is always to dig down into the sources
<0> PlasmaHH not any easy, I've been digging for hours and even compiling is difficult :-/ I don't understand why there isn't a function to get this data
<2> hello
<1> hi, I just got a warning when compiling a new linux kernel that gcc 4.1 "miscompiles" the kernel. anyone knows more about this and if its serious? (I never had any problems with the previous kernel)
<3> Hi all, I need to compile to arm eabi, and currently I'm using gcc from codesourcery for that, but i believe that it includes a dependency fo libgcc in my code and I can not chroot to my enviroment with the following error: root@mac-unaima:/indt/mamona/clfs-eabi# chroot .
<3> /bin/bash: error while loading shared libraries: libgcc_s.so.1: cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires: Invalid argument
<3> does anybody have an idea about this error or can tell me how to compile to arm eabi without use gcc from codesourcery ?
<4> ask CodeSourcery
<4> and maybe your OS vendor
<3> velco codesourcery is all closed .. does not even have a discussion list ... :(
<3> the code at least is open but the communication is almost impossible
<4> what OS ?
<3> linux ...
<4> what OS based on the kernel "Linux" ?
<1> velco: not you too
<4> perhaps OS vendor can explain why stack cannot be executable
<4> PlasmaHH: not me what ?
<1> its usually a problem with a security patch for the kernel...
<3> mine is ubuntu ... that one that I'm constructing with gcc from code sourcery is a pure from scratch
<1> velco: calling distros OSs on their own... thats like calling winblows xp with ie 6 a different os than with ie7
<1> vivijim: disable all that fancy security stuff for the kernel
<4> PlasmaHH: no, I don't call an OS with Firefox or Mozilla differen OSes
<1> velco: even with different versions or even with different compilations you call another OS...
<4> I do call Windows XP and Windoes 2000 different OSes
<3> PlasmaHH: do you mean that something is not accessing the libgcc because this fancy security stuff from my kernel ? and what kind of stuffs, I didn't get exactly what to remove from my config ...
<1> vivijim: there are lots of security extensions that make stack non-executable, I cannot remember all of them
<4> PlasmaHH: why do you insist in calling gcc or X Window System "Linux" ?
<1> velco: I dont. I just insist on calling the distros distros, not OSs
<3> ok, but what kind ... where I can find this on kernel config ? just an example so I believe that I can find the others
<1> vivijim: CONFIG_NONEXECUTABLE_STACK is one example.
<4> PlasmaHH: what "distro" ? what is it distributing ?
<3> PlasmaHH: thanks I'll try that ...
<4> what is "OS" actually and why, say, "Debian GNU/Linix" is not an "OS", but "distro" ?
<1> velco: because we called it so for the last 15 or whatever years
<4> well, I thionk that;'s more then enough.
<4> time to use the proper term already.
<4> is Windows XP a "distro" ?
<1> well then that way there are a few billion OSs
<4> is NetBSD a "distro" ?
<3> about your discussion, google: define:"operating system" ... for all that link you can conclude that operating system is the kernel ... not the other programs that came in different distros ... so I believe that you can call even linux2.4 an os different from linux2.6 but not the distros .. but this is jst my opinion ...
<1> so asking for the "OS" then is useless
<4> billions maybe not, but hundreds - definitely
<4> vivijim: linux is only a kernel.
<1> no, billions. there are like 1600 distros, and each of them can come in millions of flavours, all depending on various settings, various combinations of packages installed, or even self compiled. its a nearly infinite number of possibilitites
<4> vivijim: I know for example of an OS, which is identical to debian, only that it does not use the kernel Linux
<4> PlasmaHH: then let's settle on the set of programs in the distribution media, and not on the powerset of possible installed combinations.
<1> velco: at which point of time? today? tomorrow its maybe differently... is it a new os then?
<4> no, it does not change.
<1> sure it does. upload a new package to the ftp. changed.
<4> no, it does not work that way.
<4> is Windows XP a "distro" ?
<1> what way then? rsync?
<4> is NetBSD a "distro" ?
<1> windows xp is the os. you have home and professional edition which you may call a distro, though that term does simply not apply to everything you can imagine.
<1> so how does it work? it works fine for me to upload a new package to the ftp... why doesnt it make it a new OS? the distribution medium changed its contents
<4> it may constitute a new version of the OS
<4> uploading a file on does not make an OS lose its distinguishing characteristics
<1> and when I do LFS?
<3> velco: exactly ... linux is just the kernel but the os is just the kernel ... what makes the machine be understandable ... the windows like to see the stuff is the global one ... they want the global call by os ... but actualy the os is just the kernel of windows ...
<1> at which point is it a new OS? when I remove all the packages that no other "OS" has? when I remove most of their patches? their branding? what when I mix different packages of different "OSs"?
<4> vivijim: no, OS is not just the kernel. For example, many kernels cannot perform their functions, because they interact with non-kernel entitiers - daemon processes, services, etc
<4> vivijim: likewise, these non-kernel entities cannot perform their functions alone - they need the kernel
<4> vivijim: so an ON is combination of kernel with non-kernel parts
<4> PlasmaHH: can you distinguish between Debian and Fedora ?
<4> PlasmaHH: does uploading/installing/configuring./deinstalling makes it lose that distinction ?
<1> velco: if you give me a desktop with no branding information, I hardly can.
<4> ok, how then Windows XP is an "OS" and "Debian GNU/Linux" is a "distro" ?
<4> what is the fundamental difference, which puts them in different catagories ?
<4> why they are differently cl***ified ?
<1> e.g. because I can distinguish them from a quick look on the desktop?
<4> no.
<1> because binaries for one dont run on the other (withouth speial support)
<4> how are they cl***ified differently.
<3> velco: Here in my new job I had to install a ubuntu, but with one command I change it to a kubuntu ... and now after remove and install packages you can distinguish it from a debian .. Everbody that use my machine ask if it is a debian ... So, what OS it really is ??
<4> why they don't belong to the same cl*** in the taxonomy of things ?
<4> vivijim: it is probably GNU/Linux
<1> but its not the same OS as I have then !
<1> I have the "PlasmaHH OS". I think. or how can I call it?
<4> that term is fine.
<1> so how is asking for the OS of any use?
<4> but that's not the question *which* "OS" it is.
<4> the question is why one thing is an OS and another is a "distro" ?
<1> well all the discussion was triggered by your question about what OS he was using. so of what use is the question if it does not tell you anything?
<4> although, I'd rather accept that , say, Fedora and Debian are different distros of the GNU/Linux OS
<4> thre questio may not tell me anything, but the answer may.
<3> ok, now I agree with you GNU/Linux is more proper then just Linux because the libs and some other parts are important too ... but call different distros from different os I believe that it is an not a good deal ... distro is related to different organization of things and not about the base ...
<4> for example, RHEL has the requirement that no binary needs an executable stack
<3> that are actually GNU/Linux
<1> given that when most people say linux they really mean gnu/linux I think thats a good compromise, still fedora,suse,gentoo,debian etc. are all different distros of the same os. just like home edition and professional edition are distros of the same windows xp os
<4> vivijim: well, the difference is blurred. Some products have very different bases - basically it may happen that only linux+glibc are constant
<4> they have different init scripts, sifferent daemons, differemt administration utilities
<1> well you will only very few distros which dont have coreutils, x, bash, gcc and a few dozen of other tools
<4> PlasmaHH: yes, these may be though of like different distros of the same OS. But not every OS with the Linux kernel is in that category. For example the one in linksys routers or in some Motorola cell phones or in Zaurus
<4> I had the "plaeasure" with wiorking with an OS with uLinux kernel and uclibc ...
<1> velco: well right. guess implying that linux always is synonymous for GNU/Linux is the real problem in those days. it was probably more appropriate a while ago when there was only i386 linux
<4> only 386 linux and only slackware :)
<4> RHEL is probably very different animal too
<4> (kernel-wise)
<1> yeah, good old times ;) and then one day suse 4.2 was there, developing out of slack... intresting time that was...
<1> you mean because of all their crap^H^H^H^H lots of patches?
<4> yeah, given that's it's heavily optimized for specific workloads
<4> e.g. running Oracle or DB2
<4> anyway, it seems it's some kernel security mechanism, preventing executable stacks
<1> yeah, getting back to that it definetly is, I have seen this error message lots of times
<1> hm, ok, I have now installed 4.1.2 prerelease I hope that will be better for the kernel... and I hope that the other 460 packages I installed along them work still too :/
<4> I;ve been working with a 4.1.2 compiled kernel for a week now
<4> gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 20061115 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-21)
<4> "smooth"
<1> seems to be the same version here, even the same date
<4> guess using the same ... distro :P
<1> no ;)
<1> hm, all those new options...
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