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Comments:
<0> I'm using a high contrast color scheme in KDE that is white on black, and I have it set to affect GTK programs as well. In gaim (1.5.1cvs, kubuntu 6.06) the tooltips are white on light yellow and they're unreadable
<0> I've tried changing the .gtkrc-2.0 file but that doesn't work
<1> uranther: try to run other gtk program, and see if you see the same thing
<1> uranther: if so, it's not a gaim problem
<0> the tooltips in Firefox show black on light yellow
<1> Hmm I wouldn't count that as a regular gtk program
<0> why not?
<0> it uses GTK--
<1> It draws most of the widgets manually
<0> how about gtk-switch
<1> I don't know what it is, but it sounds like a gtk program
<0> gtk-theme-switch or whatever
<1> Does the same problem occur?
<2> there's a gtk demo too iirc
<0> it doesn't have tooltips..
<0> gtk demo... lemme see
<3> "gtk-demo"
<0> not as a kubuntu package
<2> Doesn't gtk-demo ship with all gtk installs?
<3> Usually
<1> I don't have it
<4> uranther: apt-get install gtk2.0-examples at least thats what it's in in debian
<5> Hello. I use gaim under Ubuntu 6.06 and I am getting some weird warning as "source conflict" (retranslated from Turkish, but literally it is it) Any idea or advice?
<6> Hey, does anyone here work on one of the IM protocol modules?
<7> hello
<8> starling: If you have a question you should probably just ask it.
<6> Well... just wanted to talk about the feasibilty of a proxy protocol, that is, a protocol that itself uses the other protocols.
<8> I don't understand.
<1> Like jabber transports?
<6> Yeah kind of...
<6> I was thinking of making a protocol whose user IDs were OTR fingerprints, and it'd take data from anywhere, and sort it by the fingerprint to each different user.
<1> So you want something that p***es other people's IM like tor or freenet?
<6> More for authentication than anything. That way if you changed accounts, even without notice, your buddies wouldn't even see an interruption, because your OTR fingerprint would stay the same.
<8> Uh, why?
<6> Well... because I changed JIDs recently, and it was a pain having to re-add everyone to my buddy list. It'd be nicer if they just knew who I was on the new JID.
<8> Sounds like a lot of work for no real gain.
<6> "A pain" might become a mission critical security breach, depending on who I was talking to about what.
<8> Since as soon as you start adding any real stuff to this new 'protocol' of yours, it becomes 'just another account' for you to log in to and keep track of.
<6> Yeah, except with automatic buddy verification and updates.
<8> Huh?
<8> It's just another account that you have to log in to to forward IMs to the accounts you really use, how is that a good thing?
<1> You have to make sure you don't switch that account for one thing
<6> No matter what IM account I sent you messages, OTR would produce and verify the same fingerprint. So if I changed from Yahoo to AIM or something, my friends wouldn't even notice, because the messages would have the same fingerprint.
<1> You friends would have to use your protocol
<6> Yes.
<8> Or your 'protocol' would need to have accounts for you on all the protocols to multiplex between.
<8> So again, it becomes Just Another Account.
<8> Or it's contactized conversations.
<6> It's an account whose server can never crash or deny access though. The verification happens cryptographically, at each client, instead of authoritatively at some flaky server.
<8> How do the messages get to the clients?
<8> How do you send a message to someone on this 'protocol'?
<1> Oh no, p2p again
<6> Well it doesn't matter really. Through the flaky servers I'm thinking. They're not so flaky that they're unusable, the problem is they're flaky enough that one has to abruptly change accounts far too often for my liking.
<8> Why do you need to change accounts because of flaky servers?
<8> Especially on jabber where you can just run your own.
<6> Not everyone can run a jabber server. But that aside...
<1> "My house leaks when it rains" "Move everytime when it rains!"
<8> Yes, they can.
<1> Fix your roof will solve your problem
<6> No, most people don't have a static IP.
<1> dyndns
<6> khc: What if you don't own the roof? This is a protocol for transients!
<8> They don't need one.
<8> starling: How do you send messages?
<6> They need a static IP to run a DNS server.
<8> What?
<6> And they need a DNS server to have SRV records.
<8> They don't need SRV records.
<6> Because dyndns charges mucho bucks before it gives you SRV records.
<6> ?
<8> jabber doesn't need SRV records.
<6> I was losing about half my messages aimed at jabber.org before I managed to enable SRV records.
<8> I don't know what your problem was, or what you were seeing but I can tell you for a fact that jabber Does Not need SRV records.
<6> Still can't talk to gmail.com, but that's probably a given.
<8> You only need SRV records when the machine hosting the jabber server isn't actually at the IP that the hostname resolves to.
<6> Oh okay.
<6> Hmm...
<8> Which is true for gmail.
<6> Can't imagine what the problem was then.
<1> starling: The real solution is, get an account on a server which is stable
<8> But again, you still haven't explained how your protocol solves anything.
<8> Since it really just adds another account for you to log in to, since you still need some way to send messages to people on this protocol.
<6> I don't want to trust my identity to a third party server. 'Stable' varies.
<6> Yes, that's why my idea for a protocol would be a proxy protocol. It would act as an account, and also use another account.
<8> How do you send messages on this 'proxy account'?
<6> Well, you'd send messages and the proxy protocol would figure out what their recepient's last known identity was, like a JID or something, and then it'd send the message as your JID, to their JID, whereupon they'd receive it and do the reverse, updating the last JID you were seen by.
<8> How would it figure out their last identity?
<6> It separates identification from transport method, which is a good idea in my mind.
<8> How do you add new 'indetities' to your 'account'?
<6> Oh they'd have to initially do a normal OTR verification system. They could email each other or something. It's the same as putting someone on your buddy list.
<6> s/verification system/verification session/
<8> So your 'protocol' is really just a gaim contact?
<8> Which automatically adds people to itself if they have a key you've already seen?
<6> Yes, but if their JID changes, it will automatically update in all their friend's clients.
<8> How would it do that?
<6> Because their identity is not determined by the JID. A strange new JID would come in, with a familiar OTR fingerprint, and there you go.
<8> 'come in' to where?
<8> A server?
<6> Through my current JID, or wherever. Yes.
<8> So your protocol now has servers too, then?
<8> And magically these aren't going to be unstable?
<6> No, it just uses jabber servers or whatever.
<8> How?
<8> So now you just mean transferring buddy lists from one account to another?
<8> And notifying people that you have a new JID?
<6> Somewhat, but it also puts the authority back in the hands of the user, where now it's in the hands of the server.
<8> What authority?
<8> Which user?
<6> The authority to say who I am.
<1> I think he's talking about something like gaim-encryption where the key is stored
<6> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/
<8> Right, my point is that it doesn't move anything, since you can trust only keys anyway if you wanted to.
<8> He's just formalizing it.
<6> Yes.
<6> Via a proxy protocol. Seems reasonable.
<8> It isn't a protocol.
<8> At best it's some conventions.
<1> It sounds like some gaim plugins
<6> I'm thinking to make a protocol though.
<8> But it isn't a protocol.
<1> that send messages to the right account
<8> It's a set of conventions that automatically keeps a list of accounts for a person when those accounts send you messages with a certain keyt.
<8> Only it depends entirely on the people having accounts on the same protocols at the same time.
<6> It's a ... well... it acts like a protocol though. You'd add buddies to your roster, even though the sorting of incoming messages never touched the network.
<8> You mean outgoing?
<6> ...those too.
<8> And yes, like I said, it's a gaim contact.
<6> So I would...
<1> starling: Do you know what gaim contacts are?
<6> khc: c.C
<8> You are talking about managing the buddies in a contact automatically via the receipt of otr keys.
<1> starling: Just checking, many people don't
<6> A gaim contact is a thingy on your buddy list what represents a hyooman being you can talk to.
<1> Isn't that basically what you talked about?
<8> Yes, which collects all their accounts into one place.
<8> Which is *exactly* what you have been talking about.
<6> The current OTR plugin is tied to individual accounts though. If you change contacts, it needlessly requires re-verification. Perhaps then I should make it so that regardless of the contact, the plugin keeps a global verified fingerprint list?
<8> I don't really remember how OTR works, but the key that you are speaking about is public, no?
<6> It's an asymmetric encryption key exchange yes. With a sort of weird kind of certification too.
<8> What prevents me from claiming to be you?
<6> I am the only one who has the private key.
<8> Which is used when?
<6> Whenever a session is started... it's basically in-band SSL.
<8> What would happen if I sent someone your fingerprint as my own?
<6> You wouldn't be able to sign that fingerprint with my private key.
<8> So the fingerprint that I send in the first place gets signed?
<6> Yes.
<6> It's a really cool plugin so far. Just that there's a separate key for every account, not just one key for all accounts. Thus changing an account... generates a new, unknown key, when it should be using the existing key.
<8> Talk to the otr people, if there isn't a reason for each account having a different key suggest they change it.
<6> Maybe I'll do that. An OTR protocol, that multiplexes with other protocols is kind of a weird way to go about it anyway... I just can't fathom how to prevent the "so-and-so wants to get on your buddy list" messages, if they're from someone switching accounts.
<8> You do realize you just said that your original idea of a proxy protocol is weird, right?
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